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Guest: Matt Ruedlinger, founder of Triple R Marketing and co-owner of Joan’s Caramels.
Host: Kevin Mako, founder of Product Startup and the leading expert in hardware startup consulting. A hardware entrepreneur since 1999, Kevin has advised more than 1,500 founders and built and scaled MAKO Invent through its acquisition by TriMech in 2024.
Making a Product More Than a Commodity
Matt Ruedlinger shares why he and his wife bought Joan’s Caramels and how collaborations with local wineries created a distinctive product experience. The conversation examines emotional connection, co-marketing, memorable moments, and the difference between a beloved brand and an interchangeable commodity.
Episode transcript
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Filip Valica: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the product startup podcast, podcast that helps bring your product idea to life by chatting with successful inventors, product designers, and other industry professionals. This podcast is run by Mako Design + Invent and hosted by Filip Valica.
Filip Valica: Our goal here is to get to the bottom of what makes a product successful, from initial idea to putting your product on the shelf. We're taking you step by step to build a functional product and scale your product business. Now onto the show.
Filip Valica: If you were to go tell your customers today that you were going to close your business. business, how are they going to react? Right. Yeah. I would imagine most people will say, oh, well, I'll just move to the next commodity item. That's right. And if that is the answer,
Filip Valica: where is the connection?
Filip Valica: The Product Startup Podcast, episode 20. Welcome to the Product Startup Podcast, helping you turn ideas into successful products step-by-step. With your host,
Filip Valica: Philip Belizza. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Product Startup Podcast. In the last episode, we talked with Susanna Stewart and Carol Mena of Fro Butter, a popular line of organic hair care products that promote optimal hair health, especially for curly textures.
Filip Valica: We talk about how they differentiate Fro Butter from competitors in such a crowded business category. So make sure to check out episode 19 if you haven't heard it already. Also, before we get started, I wanted to highlight one reviewer, E. Barbaric, on iTunes,
Filip Valica: who wrote, with the most popular entrepreneurship podcast, you get a pretty standard a selection of guests. And oddly enough, sometimes you'll hear the same person on a few different shows at the same time. What I like about the product startup is that the interviews are not with the usual suspects.
Filip Valica: You get a great selection of industries, entrepreneurs, and founders who are not interviewed anywhere else. Thank you, EBarberic, for your feedback. Totally agree with you.
Filip Valica: I look for guests that haven't been in other places before because I find that more interesting to get a unique perspective, especially from people that have done it from the ground up that, you know, self-made,
Filip Valica: so to speak. So I really appreciate everyone's comments for writing in. Please continue to do so and give me valuable feedback. It's certainly something that I used to make the show better for
Filip Valica: everybody. And now on to today's episode. I'm joined by Matt Rudlinger, the founder of the marketing firm Triple R Marketing. He's a successful serial entrepreneur and for years Matt gave
Filip Valica: his clients Jones Carmel's on their birthdays. Clients loved the personal touch of receiving these Carmel's and they quickly became a key part of his business. When Matt got word that the store was closing, he took over as the new owner.
Filip Valica: And so we'll get to talk a little bit about marketing as well as taking over an existing product-based business. So let's get started. Hi, Matt. Thanks for coming on the show today. Hey, happy to be here.
Filip Valica: So you have a really varied background, and I hope that we're going to get a chance to touch on everything. Not only do you run your own marketing firm, but you also have a physical product-based business and are a partner in an app.
Matt Ruedlinger: So without having a 10-minute intro, just hit on everything, can you tie all three a little bit together and how they relate to you? Yeah.
Matt Ruedlinger: So the marketing business is where we started in 2005 doing the web design, promo products,
Matt Ruedlinger: and consulting.
Matt Ruedlinger: Social media has been more of a big thing here recently, obviously.
Matt Ruedlinger: The Carmel business we acquired just this year. We used to use the Carmel's for giving our clients a little gift on their birthday, just to, you know, thank them.
Matt Ruedlinger: The lady that owned the business was, you know, I closed the doors and out of a, to make this quick, we couldn't find anything to replace how we worked with her and something that's good. So we ended up buying the business.
Matt Ruedlinger: So that's kind of how we acquired the Carmel business. And as far as the app goes, that's been a product.
Matt Ruedlinger: It's been going on for the last three or four years out of the fact that I'm a very impatient person when it comes. I don't like to wait.
Filip Valica: And so that's kind of how that developed and I reached out to some pretty good partners to get that to the market.
Filip Valica: Awesome. So I hope to hit on all of those. This is definitely one of those shows where we could talk about for hours on any one of these topics. But why don't we start with the Carmel's because that sounds really interesting.
Matt Ruedlinger: We're doing some work and we're using the Carmel's for lead generation or as a thank you favors for your existing customers and for whatever reason the company wasn't doing that well and it threatened to kind of upset that. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah.
Matt Ruedlinger: I mean, so one of the big things that we work with with our clients is creating customer experiences because if there's nothing that you're doing is different
Matt Ruedlinger: than other businesses, then there's nothing there to. you know, knock out the competition, if you will. So we've always strived on getting to know our clients on a more personal level,
Matt Ruedlinger: become friends with them, if you will. And we always like to send them out Carmel's on their birthdays, just to thank you for, you know, doing business with us. And, you know,
Matt Ruedlinger: it's something we've done for years. And the lady that owned the business actually was getting ready to retire. And she was a friend to the family and still is.
Matt Ruedlinger: she was going to retire and her husband retired as well and they got grandbabies so she was going to shut the doors and it's been such a really important part of our business and she was so easy
Matt Ruedlinger: to work with like we would share a document at Google Doc and I would just load the birthdays on there and she would just automatically send them out so it was really nice you know we I've got
Matt Ruedlinger: hundreds of messages from from our friends and our clients thanking us for remembering them on their birthday. And so she made this process really simple and made us look like superheroes.
Matt Ruedlinger: So when she said that she was going to shut her doors,
Matt Ruedlinger: I mean, I like 25 pounds of carmels on the spot. Wow. Yeah, because I was like, okay, we've got to do something. And so I spent a couple months trying to find something as good and as easy to work with as Joan.
Matt Ruedlinger: And we just didn't find anything around here. and so decided talking with my wife, we decided to buy the business.
Filip Valica: And so now we're taking the experience that we provide to our customers and help other business do that same thing by, you know,
Filip Valica: creating a program to reach out to clients, you know, on some special days or special occasions and send them, you know, like the carmoles in a branded candy jar or tumbler
Matt Ruedlinger: or something like that that has their logo. on it.
Matt Ruedlinger: Wow. So, and you made it sound so easy. Well, we just decided to buy the business and and poof, right? We had the business.
Matt Ruedlinger: What kind of, what kind of things went on when you guys were buying it? Like, did you, like, sit down and have this conversation to say, gosh, can we make this profitable? Or is this just going to be a marketing arm to the business? Or, like, can you
Matt Ruedlinger: go through your thought process a bit? Well, it is a good marriage with the promotional products. So it gave us a unique aspect that we can offer to businesses.
Filip Valica: So we've already, you know, having that relationship with businesses prior with doing the marketing, like I said, in the promo products, adding the carmills to it was just an additional, it was an extra layer, if you will,
Filip Valica: to kind of separate us from other companies that do promo products.
Matt Ruedlinger: And it also helps with our consulting side so that we're not just selling a product, We're helping you learn how to use it in a way to strengthen your relationships with your customers.
Matt Ruedlinger: So when you looked at, I guess, making the dollars and sense of it all, did you see how much you were spending on some of these promotional products and just say, look, the finances justify it?
Matt Ruedlinger: Or was it kind of a stretch goal where you said, you know, it's really expensive now, but we have this larger goal within the company, and I think it's going to kind of fit in really well with that as we grow? It was twofold. The one side of it was the product side.
Matt Ruedlinger: Just like, you know, we're like, okay, we're already selling these promotional products. Here's a great adder that we can provide, you know, with it into where we will warehouse the products for the customers.
Matt Ruedlinger: And then we can ship out the carmels with their branded logo on it with fresh carmels because there's no preservatives in them. So we thought, man, this is something really unique. and that nobody's doing.
Filip Valica: So that was kind of our edge is that, okay, we think that we can tackle the market
Matt Ruedlinger: because nobody's doing it.
Filip Valica: So that was kind of our edge with that. And then the other side of it was, it was really interesting that when Joan came to me and was telling me about how she was going to close her business,
Matt Ruedlinger: and I couldn't find something to replace what she's done for us.
Matt Ruedlinger: So now the question on the conservative, insulting side. Yeah, how many other people are having that experience? That's right.
Filip Valica: You know, if you were to go tell your customers today that you were going to close your business, how are they going to react? Right. Yeah, I would imagine most people will say, oh, well,
Matt Ruedlinger: I'll just move to the next commodity item. That's right. And if that is the answer,
Matt Ruedlinger: where is the connection? It's almost lunchtime here, and I'm looking through the Jones Connell's website, and I'm getting really hungry. So I'm going to have to switch the page. And when you said
Matt Ruedlinger: you bought 25 pounds of caramel that's like 500 pieces of caramel it's a lot yeah and that was going to get this by for a little while and that was just like just kind of out of panic so uh so yeah it's
Matt Ruedlinger: uh and they're deli i'm the taste tester just so you know not only the president but a client right that's right can you talk a little bit about how that transition was that now you were
Matt Ruedlinger: running a marketing company and in a way were you responsible for running the second company as well, or did Joan stay on as a silent manager? So it was a process. We own it.
Matt Ruedlinger: And she consulted with us in the beginning to teach. My wife actually makes the carmels to teach her how to make them. And just to kind of learn how she was doing things. And we've kind of taken everything to a different level.
Matt Ruedlinger: She used to have a storefront here in town. And we took everything to online and more working with on the corporate level.
Filip Valica: We also now work with a lot of wineries here around the state, which we'll look into expand on that here soon.
Filip Valica: But we take the wine and they cook it down and mix it in the caramel for that specific winery. So that winery can sell caramel with their wine in it. Oh, that's awesome. And they infuse it in there.
Matt Ruedlinger: And that has really exploded because, again, it's something unique. Right. Different than nobody's doing.
Matt Ruedlinger: and you know I think that's key to any business is that if you're in business what is it that you're doing that's different and you use that and that's your focus and that's
Matt Ruedlinger: your drive and that's your marketing and that's really turning out to be something big though on the caramel side the the caramel making the wine in the carmels that's really
Matt Ruedlinger: exciting actually I'd love to taste that it'd be interesting flavor there's some wineries here in Texas that are really close by within driving distance and you could do tours here. And I know they'll pair them with olive oil tastings and some of this other stuff that's
Matt Ruedlinger: growing in popularity, but I don't think I've ever seen a wine cooked down and incorporated into anything else. Yeah, and they're really good. You mean, until you taste it, you really don't know how good they are. They just did some.
Matt Ruedlinger: Last week, it was a raspberry and a blueberry wine, and they were delicious.
Filip Valica: I mean, really good, yeah. How did you come up with the idea for that? Well, they already had one winery as a client here in town, and they used a Merleau caramel, or Malo wine.
Filip Valica: And they used to do the process where they would take the caramel, then they would dip it into the chocolate and then box them up.
Filip Valica: And we found out that we went back and did a cost analysis on them that we had adjusted pricing, and it was a little more than what they really wanted to spend.
Matt Ruedlinger: So we came back with a different formula, if you will, on how we made the carmels. And it kept the cost down. So we decided to take that and reach out to other wineries as well and see if there was interest.
Matt Ruedlinger: And the reply and the feedback and they're just open, they're just like open arms. Like, yes, we want something. This is great. It's unique to us. Right. And it's something delicious too. So it's a win-win. Like you said, it's a win-win for both companies, right?
Filip Valica: Because now the wineries are tapping into a market that they maybe weren't in a snack market, right?
Matt Ruedlinger: or I don't know, that's a poor characterization of your industry, but it's not necessarily a market that they were in before. When someone says, one, you don't think of a treat, you know, a bite size, something that you can have on the go.
Matt Ruedlinger: So that's really exciting for them as well and for you guys because that's completely outside of what you're doing. Are you still selling in the retail and person to person or is it mainly online now?
Matt Ruedlinger: It's online and through business connections, you know, where we're working with businesses through the marketing side.
Filip Valica: of it. So there's no retail store. Now, we have, we have a retail location. We have someone who's wholesaling them. And we actually just picked up with Lucky's Market here in Bloomington as well.
Filip Valica: In the next few weeks, they'll start carrying our carmills as well. So we're working on some retail locations as well, but, you know, just do wholesale distribution. Nice. Congratulations on that.
Filip Valica: Are you getting any type of a bump because it's local and people want to buy local and support local businesses.
Filip Valica: So we have, yeah, we have a lot of local, but it's amazing how many we sell
Matt Ruedlinger: outside to other areas in Texas, then we talk down to Florida. You name it. We ship all over the U.S. And building the SEO side of our website is the big push that we've got, you know,
Matt Ruedlinger: that we're starting to work on now, starting to kind of push that awareness more, especially now because the holiday time is a big time for candy industry. Yeah, absolutely. Give baskets and all sorts of things that you can buy in advance. Right.
Matt Ruedlinger: You mentioned the corporate program, and I think that's one of the things that people overlook a lot. I had a buddy that I used to work with, and on the side, he made some custom calls, like, for hunting, like duck calls and deer calls and things like that.
Filip Valica: He gave a couple away for a, and we have a pretty large company, so it was like a corporate United Way fundraiser, and the executives in the company ended up buying them to give away to some of their hunting buddies.
Filip Valica: And that really led to some extra business. Yeah, I think absolutely. Anytime that you can, I mean, I'm not seeing you shower everybody with gifts, but, you know, it isn't,
Matt Ruedlinger: just strengthening relationships with the people that you're working with
Filip Valica: and reaching out to them outside of an area of when you need them, you're wanting to buy,
Matt Ruedlinger: you're wanting them to buy something or they need to buy something. If you can connect with them outside of those parameters, you're building their relationship.
Matt Ruedlinger: You know, I don't think we're B to B or B to C anymore. We're people to, we're P to P. We're people to people. I mean, we are because social media has made us that way. And I think it's key to have that mindset.
Matt Ruedlinger: And, you know, why are that, you know, why are people doing business with you? Well, I definitely want to get into social media, but I'm, you know, the product side of me really wants to finish up with Jones Farms here. I'll send you some.
Filip Valica: Now you set it on the air. So now it's a promise. So your wife runs this part of the business. Does she have any help to pack orders or to create inventory and do customer service or anything like that?
Filip Valica: So as far as packing goes and the wrapping, our kids and then their friends, we've got a bunch of teenagers that rap.
Matt Ruedlinger: Yes, indentured servitude. That's right.
Matt Ruedlinger: That's awesome.
Filip Valica: Yeah, so it's really good. They like it and we do everything out of a commercial kitchen.
Matt Ruedlinger: And, you know, it's actually a really fun business because not only is it, you know, generating sales,
Filip Valica: but it's become a family business as well. And, you know, it's kind of neat to show them what goes into operating a business, like really understanding what your cost is, you know,
Filip Valica: when you take the cost of renting the commercial kitchen to paying them and the cost of the wrappers and the ingredients and figuring all that out. So it's been really fun and a good lesson.
Filip Valica: as well i am a dad my daughter is 16 months now so a bit too young to get started wrapping things but i definitely want her to grow up with the same work ethic that i grew up with and understanding
Filip Valica: the business side of things um so that you know maybe we'll have you on another show when your uh kids are a little bit older and we could just focus on that part because that'd be really fascinating
Matt Ruedlinger: for me oh yeah absolutely they would love that yeah actually you know what yeah we'll have them on the show and they can kind of talk about how it is to work with a boss. It's also their mom and dad.
Matt Ruedlinger: Yes. Yeah, that would be a really good show.
Matt Ruedlinger: As long as you have the edit motion. Right. That's right. That'd be good.
Matt Ruedlinger: So, you know, you talked about the social media part of all this that, you know, that helps us connect to people at a deeper level. And I know that's so hard nowadays personally for me, I feel, especially when it comes to mediums like Twitter
Matt Ruedlinger: and maybe lately Facebook is that there's so much noise out there and so many other people that are advertising and marketing and pushing right it's just constantly like my twitter feed is just
Matt Ruedlinger: flooded and i've even created lists of people that i want to make sure to see all of their posts but some of these people post every hour there's no way that i can see even just thumb through
Matt Ruedlinger: the content that is being thrown at me in a day how do you compete at that as a small business and how do you even manage that as a person that's on the receiving it?
Matt Ruedlinger: So I always put a plug to this guy.
Matt Ruedlinger: Jay Bear,
Matt Ruedlinger: he actually lives here in Bloomington, but he's the author of the book Utility. If you've ever read it, definitely recommend it. But one of the comments that he says about social media is that you're competing against family and friends.
Matt Ruedlinger: And so if you don't have anything that's worth saying, if you're just saying things that just put something out there,
Matt Ruedlinger: I personally think it's a waste of time.
Matt Ruedlinger: Now,
Matt Ruedlinger: you know, you have to understand, as far as a business, you have to understand where your audience is at and why are you on there. So, I mean, I always tell everybody, I use Facebook, for instance, on a personal level to get to know my clients,
Matt Ruedlinger: get to know them a little more so that when I'm talking to them, I have an idea of what's going on and I can talk to them about something other than just business all the time. Mm-hmm.
Matt Ruedlinger: You know, Twitter is becoming more of a platform for customer service, you know, where people can reach out to businesses that they have an issue because they don't want to call.
Matt Ruedlinger: They don't want to hear that voice recording and have to repeat themselves over and over, right? So Twitter is becoming a great platform for that, and you're seeing a lot more businesses use it for that.
Filip Valica: You know, when it comes to going to come back into Facebook, Facebook on the business side, You know, the key for businesses on Facebook is to create a community.
Filip Valica: You're right. There's nothing worse than if you're getting blasted with buy, buy, buy from a business all the time.
Matt Ruedlinger: And, you know, what we try to, what we do, we try to explain is, you know, you're spending about 90% of the time building a community. You know, what's going on in your community? What's going on with your customers?
Matt Ruedlinger: How can you help promote them and things that are happening? happening and then you spend about 10% of the time to promote something that you have.
Matt Ruedlinger: Otherwise, no one's, it is. It gets so noisy in that nobody really cares about what you're saying if you're promoting your business all, if you're just trying to sell all the time. But if you're
Matt Ruedlinger: putting good information out there that people want to know about, then they start, then you start to stand out from the rest. So it's a process of, you know, becoming a resource that when you do
Matt Ruedlinger: post something that it's relevant to the people that are seeing it. and then once you build that trust in them that they know when you're going to say something
Matt Ruedlinger: that it's going to have value to them or help them then when you promote something you've
Matt Ruedlinger: kind of earned that their time to look at what you have so it's a process but it's it's becoming a resource first before you're trying to promote your business yeah absolutely and
Matt Ruedlinger: How do you balance that with, you're not only just you on Facebook, but you're also your company on Facebook. And so you have to be careful about what you say because that might not resonate with everybody in your target audience.
Filip Valica: So how do you walk that thin line?
Filip Valica: Well, me personally, I never talk politics on Facebook. I never really, I never get in the middle of any kind of conversation where there's conflict.
Filip Valica: I don't get into religion on Facebook. I stay clear of all of that. And I, you know, because for that reason right there, people get pretty heated up on there. And I don't want that to cross between the two.
Filip Valica: Because the bottom line is there is no bridge between your business and your personal.
Filip Valica: There's not. So if people know that you're, you know, owner of a business or work somewhere and you're saying stuff on your personal page, they're not going to be like, I mean, I can't speak for everybody. But I can't imagine somebody's going to be like, well, I,
Matt Ruedlinger: really don't care for the way they are about that. But, you know, I'll still do business. Most people are like, they take that, a lot of people take that very serious, you know. Sure. You know, it's about building that relationship and people want to work with companies that they
Matt Ruedlinger: trust and they, you know, respect and that aspect. So I think if you're in any, if you're remotely working with clients and, you know,
Matt Ruedlinger: have earned sales or anything along those lines, I mean, there's no barrier. And I mean, I see it every day.
Matt Ruedlinger: And I always like, I mean, I've seen posts where people have been so fired up at a post that they find out where they work.
Matt Ruedlinger: And then they list that business on there and like, don't, don't shop this business because this is what this person says. I mean, it's ugly, you know. Right.
Matt Ruedlinger: And it's definitely a very, you know, interesting conversation. through businesses on how to work around that issue. Well, so let's talk about Facebook a little bit more in-depth.
Matt Ruedlinger: You know, I mentioned how it's been a struggle to stay on top of people's newsfeeds a bit, especially now Facebook is prioritizing live posts and video posts. Do you have a particular method that you use?
Matt Ruedlinger: I know you're providing value and you want to make sure that you're talking about events that are going on in the community or that are relevant to people that are following,
Matt Ruedlinger: you do you mainly do that through like text posts or photos or do you do it on a schedule or is it just like whenever you have spare time you just kind of write a couple things in and you post it to your wall or do you involved in like let's say multiple groups on
Matt Ruedlinger: Facebook and just provide value in those groups like can you break that down a little bit to be a little bit more tactical sure so I mean this is where analytics come in to really
Matt Ruedlinger: kind of understand when things are more engaging because your audience is you know within analytics within Facebook or if you're setting up kind of any analytics outside of that you can
Filip Valica: track when you're getting the most engagement you know I if you're you're posting something for
Matt Ruedlinger: business you should always use an image because an image grabs the attention when you're scrolling through your feed and you know the internet of things and all the other uh things that you're
Matt Ruedlinger: I can, you know, Facebook knows you.
Matt Ruedlinger: Facebook knows a lot about you. So when I'm doing a post for us or, you know, even in another business,
Matt Ruedlinger: you know, I would always go into and target my area and target the interest, put the interest.
Filip Valica: So it's really knowing, knowing your clients.
Matt Ruedlinger: What are your clients' interest,
Matt Ruedlinger: you know, how do you know that? Well, you get to know them, you know, so. Right. So when you're doing that boost, you know, you want to do a boost, you'll put in your photo and you'll put in your area, put those interests in there and then kind of
Filip Valica: go, you know, create that call the action in that photo. Because what you want to do is you, you know, when you have good content, you want to drive them to your website, right?
Filip Valica: So, you know, you put that in there and you pull to your website and then you start looking at those analytics that are, all right, I've got traffic that's coming in from Facebook. And people are, you know, you start looking at your balance rate on your page. How long are people staying on that page?
Filip Valica: Are they reading that information? Are they going to other pages on my site? So then you can start looking at the content that you're putting down. How, you know, how relevant is that content to your audience.
Filip Valica: So you can start, I know I'm throwing a lot out here, but you start tracking all that information
Filip Valica: and so that you can, you know, start posting on the right days and the right time. You know, like for for us, Mondays are horrible because everybody, you know, we were Everyone's busy.
Filip Valica: We've been working with business owners and, you know, to try to send something on a Monday morning or Monday afternoon is almost a waste of time,
Filip Valica: you know? So let's talk about Jones Carmel's and as you dive in.
Matt Ruedlinger: Would you start with a location to help narrow down your audience or like, how would you even start with that? Because like you said, you ship all over the United States. Well, I would reach, we would reach out.
Matt Ruedlinger: to business owners and you know as far as through social media yes we would target an area like since we're here in indiana we would you know in bloomington we would start in you know hit a lot of
Matt Ruedlinger: southern indiana um and start that kind of start there see what kind of analytics we got and then move, you know, to, you know, central northern Indiana, and then move to the surrounding
Matt Ruedlinger: states. So, you know, you kind of just, you kind of got to start small.
Matt Ruedlinger: I mean, unless you've got to and then see what converts and then kind of apply that to a larger area. Right. See what's working unless you've got an astronomical budget, I guess, you know, I mean, that's just the other
Matt Ruedlinger: thing, you know, if you've got thousands of dollars to put for every boost to hit everybody, But, you know, most businesses are going to need to kind of zone in on an area that's, you know, feasible.
Matt Ruedlinger: So the reason I'm asking is partly also for myself is because as I've tried to create more publicity for the product startup,
Filip Valica: I've boosted some posts on Facebook and things like that. And I thought I was being really targeted with my audience because I picked all the demographics with age and income and the people that also have these specific
Filip Valica: interests like, you know, watch. Shark Tank and other things and podcasting. And I still ended up with an audience of, and the intersection of all of those, by the way. And so you would think that there's just massive Venn diagram that has this like tiny little
Filip Valica: hole in the middle.
Matt Ruedlinger: But I still ended up with an audience size of about 700 to a million people, 700,000 to a million people. How do you even narrow it down further than that? And I think you answered part of it is that you start locally.
Matt Ruedlinger: I haven't been able to drill down who my target audience person is based on interest. yet because we have audience members from all parts of you know all walks of life with
Matt Ruedlinger: different hobbies and some of them are stay-home parents and some are young professionals and it just seems just so hard to kind of narrow that audience down yeah I mean if you
Matt Ruedlinger: could like zone you like used to stay-at-home parents as part of your audience so if you could find you know the research more characteristics about that type of client
Matt Ruedlinger: And then you could customize that message just for them versus everybody.
Matt Ruedlinger: You know, so, you know, it makes sense. You know, so you kind of dissect,
Matt Ruedlinger: if you will, the different types of customers you have
Filip Valica: because they're not, all your customers are not the same. And so a lot of times, you know, we'll group everybody together. And it's like, here's our message, but you got to realize that it's not going to trigger everybody.
Filip Valica: You know, I've got some customers that. you know,
Matt Ruedlinger: image A would work better versus image B if I'm trying to reach out on social media, but, you know, just kind of getting to know kind of what they do, you know. I've got, again, that's where I think the power of getting to know your customers on a personal relationship is really well.
Matt Ruedlinger: I've got a couple customers that are runners, okay? So if I did a marketing piece, for example,
Matt Ruedlinger: and I can incorporate running into
Matt Ruedlinger: that, well, I'm going to grab their attention a lot faster than I am somebody who care less about running, even though they may be with my clients you know but it's again it's it's learning you know it's kind of getting to know them a little
Matt Ruedlinger: more and doing more you know data you know learning more about your clients and how you can reach out to those types of individuals so I want to touch on two things that you just said
Matt Ruedlinger: so one obviously images perform better for for different groups yeah and I found it super interesting that one of the images that I was using was for example of a person welding and sparks going everywhere and the female
Filip Valica: demographic the women responded like 10 to one times better to that ad than the men and I wouldn't have known that had I not tested it but it and I would have never predicted that you might with
Filip Valica: all your experience but to me that was just it just floored me yeah you know look the market's changing really fast you know we're changing our dynamics because everything's moving so
Filip Valica: quick and I think part of being a business is realize you know kind of be going out there and doing some trial and air, don't be afraid to try some things and realize that, you know, sometimes they're not going to work.
Filip Valica: And sometimes they will work. And so you figure out when they don't work, why. And then when they did, why, and you kind of build off that. There, I mean, there's no, there's no bulletproof system out there in any marketing, you know,
Filip Valica: because people are changing as fast as the marketing is changing. So, right, absolutely.
Matt Ruedlinger: You know, so like your example there, you know, and that's, and, you know, you got to try other things. Because, you know what, in next three to six months, you may not have that same result. Right. Yeah. The market has moved on to something different.
Matt Ruedlinger: Right. So, you know, I think that's key to just kind of be willing to try things and, you know,
Matt Ruedlinger: do some, try some different while you're out there, special social media. Because if everybody sees the same thing over and over again, you know, it starts to become, we get blinded by it, basically. Yeah, I become numb to it. You know, the second point that you mentioned was segmenting the market.
Matt Ruedlinger: And I know that I haven't done a really good job of that either. It sounds like you're a fan of just taking maybe all of your customers or clients that you've worked with before and try to create avatars for all of them.
Matt Ruedlinger: Yeah, I mean, so if your audience, unless your audience, unless your clients are so niched to where, you know, they all fit this, these characteristics, which I hardly ever see that.
Matt Ruedlinger: But, you know, yeah, you want to know,
Matt Ruedlinger: you want to dissect it and you want to. segment like yeah exactly because you want your message to relate to them you know that even goes
Matt Ruedlinger: into even if you're doing email marketing you know it all it all goes the fact that goes in play is
Filip Valica: how can i relate and how can i connect with that person because you got to realize that you know
Matt Ruedlinger: they're going they're seeing hundreds and thousands of feeds on their social media a day they're seeing hundreds of emails come in their inbox a day. How are you going to stand out in all that noise?
Matt Ruedlinger: And if you don't understand them and you don't know what triggers them, you're not going to. So it's, you know,
Matt Ruedlinger: really getting to know them and understand and taking steps to reach out to them. Yeah, and so let's take that a bit further than, you know, you're trying to make these connections with people that don't really know you.
Matt Ruedlinger: and you know you post something on social media and you can see by impressions you know a couple hundred people saw it three people left you a comment right because it's like a pretty low conversion on
Matt Ruedlinger: it where do you take that then you try to have a deeper conversation within facebook and how do you how are you not creepy about it but how do you try to get the your target customer to talk more
Matt Ruedlinger: about themselves so you get to know them better because usually people just give these you know three word replies or one sentence replies and they run off and post about something else and unless you're going to stock their profile it's you know it's it's really hard to to have that
Matt Ruedlinger: connection right is because people have these like 30 second attention spans you know and i i say that knowing how i am myself too is just because like you said we're flooded sure you know
Filip Valica: the thing is that we hang out with similar people right i you know i could probably introduce you to a slew of entrepreneurs.
Filip Valica: That's a lot of my friends, right? And I'm sure you have a lot. You're probably friends with other podcasters, right? Sure.
Matt Ruedlinger: Knowing that, and that's pretty normal, you know,
Matt Ruedlinger: a nurse knows other nurses, right? Yeah, yeah. When you have a product that you're trying to grow on social media or even a service, the best thing you could do is to get your customers to talk about you. You know, so as far as the, you know,
Matt Ruedlinger: growing your audience,
Matt Ruedlinger: you know,
Matt Ruedlinger: outside of doing the boosting.
Matt Ruedlinger: But when you get people to start sharing, you know, your existing customers to share what you're saying and talk about you,
Matt Ruedlinger: you know, you're reaching a audience of, you're reaching a new audience there because their friends and family are probably in the same industry, you know, or kind of like we just talked about. Sure. Friends with them.
Matt Ruedlinger: So getting your existing customers to talk about your products and service. and sharing it on social media is a great way to grab new clients as well.
Matt Ruedlinger: As far as, you know, the key to the advertising to audiences that you don't know is that
Filip Valica: you're getting these impressions, right, and you're getting these comments. The question is, are you directing them back to your website, or are you just posting something on the page? Right. Well, and so, but you have to balance that, right?
Filip Valica: Because if you're constantly posting your stuff and not having a conversation, then it sounds like you're shouting at them, right?
Matt Ruedlinger: If you're providing something of value that they're willing to click and go to your site to read, and then they get that value.
Matt Ruedlinger: So, you know,
Matt Ruedlinger: three things that you can do today to start your podcast, or three things you can do today to start your social media. Let's say we did these articles, and then we boosted it, and we put on there,
Matt Ruedlinger: hey, you know, this is going to be something that can help you right away. And then people come to our sites and then they read the information. And it's true value. It's not a trap to get them to our site, try to sell them anything.
Matt Ruedlinger: It's value that they can use, implement right away.
Matt Ruedlinger: So now, you know, you're not becoming spammy. You're providing value.
Filip Valica: And then would you like more information? Would you like to, you know, see this more? Right. And for our newsletter. And so, you know, it's kind of that process.
Filip Valica: You want to keep that conversation going. Yeah, you know,
Filip Valica: I don't want to, you know, it's bad. You know, you don't want to provide great conversation, and that's the end of it,
Filip Valica: you know. Right. And it's done. So if they're going to your site and they're reading what you have, there's some sort of connection there. There's some interest there.
Filip Valica: And, you know, that's the key is, really the key is driving them back to your site for the value.
Matt Ruedlinger: and then where they can maybe find other resources to get to know who you are more, who your company is and how you can just keep providing value to. And the minute they get stuck or the time comes when they need something,
Matt Ruedlinger: you know, you're ahead of the curve. No, I totally agree with that. We didn't get a chance to go into it, but one of the other social networks that you like is LinkedIn. Now, that's completely different than Facebook in how people interact on it.
Matt Ruedlinger: Can you kind of go into some detail on how you like using it and why you think it's a good platform for other small businesses to use? I think it's great because you can reach out about anybody you want to, get to know other businesses.
Matt Ruedlinger: You know, I mean, LinkedIn's getting to where it's a little bit, it's getting a little more spammy with everybody, you know. But, you know, you can connect with people and get to know about,
Filip Valica: you know, shoot out a message to him. It's like, hey, I'd like to get to know a little more about you in your business and just build a network. I mean, LinkedIn to me is about building a network and trying to help each other out.
Filip Valica: Because, I mean, I wouldn't be where I'm at today if I didn't reach out to other people and they didn't help me and then I try to help them back in return or I try to help just try to help people, you know? And I think LinkedIn's a great way to start that conversation.
Filip Valica: You know, if you reach out to somebody and you've had that first interaction with them,
Matt Ruedlinger: you know, the next step for me would be to connect. with them on LinkedIn,
Matt Ruedlinger: you know, and it's a great, also another great platform to know when people are changing jobs. Right. I mean, there's a lot of things with LinkedIn. I mean, we could, we could spend hours on LinkedIn, but I think it's a great starting point to build a larger network.
Matt Ruedlinger: Well, and I've noticed with LinkedIn, too, that people will reach out to you that don't really even know you as opposed to with Facebook or maybe some of these other mediums. It's, that's more creepy if people try to friend you and they don't, you know, maybe you don't know them. Um,
Matt Ruedlinger: so it, it sounds like it's, it's basically a tool that, that works better for if you're trying to, I don't want to say cold call, but for leads that aren't as warm.
Matt Ruedlinger: Yeah. I mean, it is, like I said, it's definitely, you know, the, it's getting a little more
Filip Valica: spammy on there. Sure. But, you know, the nice thing it does. I mean, it does have that Facebook feature. It shows your shared connections. So the cool thing is, if you know you're trying to, to network with and you can check the shared connections. And if you're,
Filip Valica: you know really close with someone that you share a connection with what a great person to reach out to and see if they could you know connect the two of you together absolutely you know i think
Matt Ruedlinger: that's a really powerful part of lincoln that um can really help boost a business you know again it's it's getting harder now because everybody's just connecting to everybody like well i'm connected
Matt Ruedlinger: but i really don't know them you know so you have a lot of that now but you know you never know either So, I mean, I think that's real powerful.
Matt Ruedlinger: Yeah, I can absolutely relate to the last thing you just said because I'm probably connected to, well, I used to be an engineering manager, but even before that, I was probably connected to maybe 100 different recruiters.
Filip Valica: So it's, yeah, it starts to like not lose value a bit because everyone else is connected to the same people too, and there's less of that commonality.
Matt Ruedlinger: But share a little bit about what people can do to get more visible on LinkedIn or maybe any tips on posting.
Filip Valica: because I see people posting more articles now or maybe repurposing some of the articles that they have on their website and putting them into a format for LinkedIn. Yeah, I mean, to get found on LinkedIn,
Filip Valica: I mean, I feel like LinkedIn's more of a targeted platform.
Matt Ruedlinger: But, I mean, I know people will do a search as well. And, you know, definitely have your profile complete,
Matt Ruedlinger: have a photo, have a photo up there for sure. I mean, there's some, it doesn't have a photo, but have a photo up there, have all your information complete links to your websites a way to contact you and you know if you
Matt Ruedlinger: can get any you know if you have any I mean of course endorsements will show up as well but really and it gives you a gauge on how how complete your profile is but just complete it to where it's
Matt Ruedlinger: you know close to 100% as possible that's going to get you the most things and and you know make sure your buy you've got some information about your bio and your title and everything like
Matt Ruedlinger: that that's those are ways if you want to be you know to get found on LinkedIn um you know i but i do
Filip Valica: think it's more of a people know who they're looking for when they try to connect with them on lincoln i believe yeah and i've noticed lately at least in my industry so oil and gas has had a big
Filip Valica: downturn and i notice that the people that are getting jobs more quickly definitely have a more complete profile but they've also uploaded documents and things and now lincoln is partnered with
Matt Ruedlinger: is it slide share yeah they own it now And so now people are posting their resumes in full PDF format, some examples of the work that they've done. Have you experimented with anything like that for like small businesses that have products that are selling?
Matt Ruedlinger: Like have uploading specific things on LinkedIn? No, we haven't worked with anybody who's like using it as a selling platform at all. So yeah, no. I mean, I know a lot, some business were used to, I mean, the slide share, the nice thing about slide share, it's free now.
Matt Ruedlinger: Right. It used to be paid. So since LinkedIn took over, it's free. So, I mean, we use that as well. And it's a great tool to, you know, communicate some value. And I know a lot of recruiters are on LinkedIn looking for individuals as well.
Filip Valica: So, you know, I know that's kind of the hot platform on the headhunting and the recruiting stage. Right. But, yeah, we don't really use it for a selling platform.
Matt Ruedlinger: But I know a lot of people will put good value on there because you got to remember, you know, you're kind of dealing with more like me. It's more business, more business platform.
Matt Ruedlinger: So providing good value is definitely key to stand out on that, in that platform.
Matt Ruedlinger: So for small business owners, you'd basically just recommend them making sure their profile is up to date and that they're networking actively through LinkedIn. So if you're meeting somebody face-to-face, you're trying to make that connection on LinkedIn as well after the meet or something like that.
Matt Ruedlinger: And then every now and then, is there like a rule where you have to, touch or talk or meet people every X amount of time so you're kind of top of mind?
Matt Ruedlinger: No, I think the general consensus is like if you meet somebody, I mean, I get it all a time and I get a LinkedIn request and I don't think anything about it and I don't think you know, most people probably wouldn't.
Matt Ruedlinger: I think it's a kind of a common thing that once you've met somebody or you're going to meet somebody that you get a LinkedIn request, I think it's
Filip Valica: great as well, especially if you're a business and you, you know, connect with someone, you're working with someone in an organization that's not the owner. I mean, it's good to connect with them because if they leave, you know, at least you know where they're going.
Filip Valica: Right. No, absolutely.
Matt Ruedlinger: And you can kind of trace other people that they know maybe in the new company. They might be an end to the place that you wanted to get into in the first place. Right. Absolutely. It makes it a lot
Matt Ruedlinger: easier to know the movement that's happening within companies. Well, so as we get near the end of the show, I always like to ask people what their favorite tips are or tools for people that
Matt Ruedlinger: are looking to kind of use their time or money a little bit better. So are there any books or online tools that you use that help you out? Yeah, my favorite book, one of my favorite books is
Matt Ruedlinger: is by Jeffrey Gittimer. It's the Little Red Book of Sales. And if you don't have that in your library, I highly recommend it. And it's kind of the theory of work hard.
Matt Ruedlinger: And, you know, things, you know, when things don't happen, you just, you got to kick your own butt, basically,
Matt Ruedlinger: and keep moving forward and figure out what happened and how can you make it better and, you know, keep going forward.
Filip Valica: I mean, I think that's the hardest thing as an entrepreneur. It's sometimes the old theory of Michael Gerber and the E-Mitt, we get busy working in our businesses versus on our businesses.
Matt Ruedlinger: And, you know, I catch myself doing that as well now. And then when you do that, you've got to refocus and make sure you're working on growing your business and not gets wrapped up in all the, you know, the day-to-day things that you can get other people to do.
Matt Ruedlinger: Yeah. And so that's a really good point.
Filip Valica: And that kind of dovetails on the next question. If you were giving advice to your younger self or a younger brother or sister that was looking to start a product-based business, what would that advice be?
Filip Valica: how would you help them kind of maintain that focus and so they would kind of stay the path and and be successful and this is hard this you know going back to what i started it's hard to con
Filip Valica: grasp this but always understand your value and what i mean by that is if when you do what
Filip Valica: whatever it is you do for example if you know that when you're your great at sales and that's what you're doing in your business, you're getting it going, and you're a value, let's say, $75 an hour.
Filip Valica: When you're out there, you're pounding the pavement and you're doing your thing, you're averaging bringing in $75 an hour. Let's just use that, for example, okay?
Filip Valica: Why are you doing, why are you writing the checks, why are you doing all these other things that you could hire somebody for $20 an hour or $15 an hour? Sure.
Filip Valica: You know, and that's a hard concept, but if you understand the value of your time,
Matt Ruedlinger: then you know what you've got to do. Does that work if you're not fully booked? Like if you're only working seven hours a day, is it still worth to outsource some of that time?
Filip Valica: What your hours worth?
Filip Valica: That's what I was asked. If you, you know, I would ask a person, you know,
Filip Valica: if I can hire somebody, you know, if I can hire somebody $15 an hour,
Filip Valica: for example,
Filip Valica: even part-time or whatever, to do these office task or to do the filing or to, you know the list. You know, when you're starting, you're doing everything. Right, absolutely. And it's really hard.
Filip Valica: It's really hard because you don't have that revenue coming in. So it's like I'm paying out more money than I've, you know, I'm coming in. And that's the hard part. But I think that was a big turning point for me when I realize,
Filip Valica: why am I doing all this when And I can,
Filip Valica: granted,
Filip Valica: it's going to cost me, but it's costing me more by not doing it.
Filip Valica: Right. Because I could be focusing on growing my business versus doing these other tasks. And this is what I'm good at. I don't want to be, right? You know, I don't want to be doing the bookkeeping. That's not what I do.
Filip Valica: So I'm not only my undervaluing my time, but I'm doing something I, I mean, it's got to be done, but I'm doing something I hate doing. Sure. And it makes me not happen.
Filip Valica: and it carries over you know I'm saying so is there a particular revenue point where you would say you know what it's worth hiring somebody now or we're on a shoestring budget how how do you transition from that that's really hard to go from now we
Filip Valica: cannot spend money to now we should be spending money do in small increments I mean you can work with temp agencies and you could hire somebody for three hours
Filip Valica: a week sure okay try that three hours and see you know and watch how that that works. I mean, and that was my first thought and why it took me so long was like, oh my gosh, I got to hire somebody 40 hours a week. There's
Filip Valica: no way that I can afford that. Yep. You know, and that was my mindset for a long time and so, and I took this course
Filip Valica: and through a training thing, and they're like, what are you talking about? Just start was small, some small. You don't, you know, take this in baby steps to where it's not break at the bank, but you're allocating that
Filip Valica: those tasks and you'll find out that you'll start working around that to like all right our checks are cut on this day you know because that's when i got someone come in the office or this is when we do the books and things like that and you'll realize that oh wow this is making
Filip Valica: my life a lot easier it makes you happier what you're doing and you're doing what you're doing whatever it is you do that generates the income very good tips Matt so if people want to find out
Filip Valica: more about you or they wanted to get some carmills to, you know, send carmills to their clients. Where would they be able to find you? Best way is to email me. And my email is Matt M-A-T-T at Triple R Marketing. And I spelled
Filip Valica: out, it's T-R-P-L-E-R marketing.com. I'm on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter. I'm out there everywhere. So just find me, Jimmy Connection, and I'll be happy to reach back out.
Filip Valica: Perfect. Thanks again, Matt, for coming on a show, your awesome guest. Thanks for sharing all your wisdom with us. And I wish you all the success with all of your companies.
Filip Valica: Thank you. I really appreciate that very much. I was happy to be here and wish you the best. And that's all I've got for today. Thanks for listening, everybody. I put all the links that we've covered under the show notes posted on the product startup.com.
Filip Valica: Join me next time as I speak with Megan Cox with Emily Beauty. We talk about the Wink brand lash and brow oil, and she created it by experimenting on herself to solve her problem of diminishing eyelashes.
Filip Valica: So she created a formulation and started mass manufacturing it. Her journey started at her dorm room in MIT and has taken her across the world to China and back. So make sure you check out that episode next week.
Filip Valica: Thanks again for sharing the podcast with your friends and other people. that are interested in the topic. It's seriously much appreciated. And I definitely welcome your
Filip Valica: feedback with comments, emails, iTunes reviews, however you want to get it to me. I love to talk to you and improve the show. So we both get more out of it. Thanks again for listening this week and I'll
Filip Valica: talk to you again next week. Thank you for listening to this episode of the product startup podcast with your host, Philip Felizza. For more great content and to stay up today, visit theproduct startup.com.
Filip Valica: your guide to getting there.
Filip Valica: Thanks for tuning into this episode of the Product Startup Podcast, the show that teaches you what it really takes to bring your product to market and turn it into a big success. This podcast series is brought to you by Mako Design + Invent,
Filip Valica: the first firm in North America to provide global caliber end-to-end physical consumer product development to startups, inventors, and small product businesses. If you're looking for product development help on your invention, head over to Mako-design.com.
Filip Valica: That's M-A-K-O-design.com for a free consultation from one of Malko Design's four design studios from coast to coast. Thanks for listening and see you next time.
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