Product Startup Podcast Episode 127: Use Makerspaces to Build Smarter

00:00:00 Kevin Mako: Hello, product innovators. Today we learn from the head of Miami's top hardware incubation space on the benefits of maker spaces to product startups.

00:00:10 Narrator: You're listening to the Product Startup podcast, the show that helps bring your product idea to life by chatting with successful inventors,

00:00:20 Narrator: product developers, manufacturers, and hardware industry professionals. Our goal here is to get to the bottom of what makes a product successful, from initial

00:00:28 Narrator: idea to getting your product on store shelves. We're taking you step by. step to build a functional product and scale your product

00:00:36 Narrator: business hosted by Kevin Mako, one of North America's leading experts on hardware development for small product businesses. Now, onto the show.

00:00:47 Kevin Mako: Welcome back, everyone. Today I'm very excited to introduce Tom Pupo to the show. Tom is the founder and head of Moonlighter Fab Lab Miami, which Mako Design just partnered with on

00:00:56 Kevin Mako: a new 8,000 square foot hardware maker space right downtown Miami Beach. Tom has a master's degree in architect. Tom has a master's degree in

00:01:02 Kevin Mako: and has been running maker spaces for many years. Today, Tom is going to share some valuable

00:01:07 Kevin Mako: knowledge for inventor, startups, and small manufacturers on what a maker space is, what makes one

00:01:11 Kevin Mako: great, and how hardware startups can benefit from them in many ways beyond just space and machinery. Now, on to the episode.

00:01:19 Kevin Mako: Hey, Tom, welcome to the show.

00:01:21 Kevin Mako: Hey, Kevin. Thanks for having me. Happy to. It's good to see you a couple weeks ago and see the new amazing facility, the moonlighter

00:01:28 Kevin Mako: facility downtown Miami Beach, 8,000 square feet. Obviously, you and I have been working together for quite a while getting this thing up and running.

00:01:35 Kevin Mako: I know you put a ton of work into it to get phenomenal hardware maker space right in the core of Miami.

00:01:42 Tom Pupo: So it's exciting to see it. It's great to see you in person again. Yeah, definitely glad to see you in person and really to, you know, see the last hurdles of,

00:01:50 Kevin Mako: you know, getting the space open and getting all the community back together again after a nice hiatus from COVID. Yeah, it's fun to see some of our stuff in there.

00:01:57 Kevin Mako: I haven't seen some of that in a while from the lack of flying, but it's good to see our Mako presence in Miami coming back

00:02:05 Kevin Mako: alive again after really being kind of in a hiatus over the COVID period, at least the in-office portion of it. So it's great to see.

00:02:12 Kevin Mako: And of course, the new space is going to be phenomenal. Tom, just give us everybody a bit of a background. How did you get to the point where now you're

00:02:19 Tom Pupo: the head of this incredible hardware incubation facility that's, you know, well known all the way across the state and beyond? It all started as an idea, as all good things do.

00:02:28 Tom Pupo: Really, it was near the end of my master's degree in architecture where I realized, wow, okay,

00:02:35 Tom Pupo: after I graduate, I'm not going to have access to the Fab Lab here at the university. So where am I going to make my things? Where am I going to prototype things?

00:02:44 Tom Pupo: It was about that time that my girlfriend at the time, now wife and now co-founder as well of this organization, we took a trip to Europe and we saw some of the first makerspaces

00:02:53 Tom Pupo: in Europe and just fell in love with the concept, how democratic it was for, as a public space that welcomed people to create anything that they can imagine, right?

00:03:03 Tom Pupo: And so we started deep diving and visiting all these different maker spaces in the Northeast and

00:03:07 Tom Pupo: California and just doing all this research and thinking, well, I think we can open one up in our hometown.

00:03:12 Tom Pupo: And very naively, very quickly jumped into, you know, this crazy, messy world of working with machines and digital fabrication and learning all this new design software.

00:03:22 Tom Pupo: So we opened our first location in Winwood and have been doing that for about five, six years.

00:03:27 Tom Pupo: and during the COVID pandemic, we were actually in the process of building out this new space

00:03:32 Tom Pupo: that you had mentioned in Miami Beach, which was a partnership in direct partnership with the city of Miami Beach.

00:03:37 Tom Pupo: So they came over to the windward space and said, we love everything that we see, but we want to see it bigger. And we wanted to be in our city.

00:03:44 Tom Pupo: We worked directly with the commissioners there to pitch the idea of this nonprofit space that would

00:03:50 Kevin Mako: provide not only the community, but other organizations within the city access to this range of tools. Well, very excited. And we're happy to be a part of it.

00:03:58 Kevin Mako: We had moved out of our 2000 square foot space also in Winwood. And this looks like such a great place for us to join forces and do this.

00:04:07 Kevin Mako: And it's as well, like it takes up a city block, which is incredible. Right on ground level, floor to ceiling glass windows and the whole

00:04:15 Kevin Mako: bit. So it's really exciting for a maker space. Because a lot of the time I've visited many that are kind of stuff in a basement or part of a garage or whatever else.

00:04:23 Kevin Mako: But this is really something special. It's going to be a pinnacle, I think for downtown Miami Beach, which is incredible. I'm easy to get to by plane and all the rest.

00:04:32 Kevin Mako: So thanks again, Tom, all the hard work putting that together. For those of you aren't familiar with makerspaces, Tom, just give a bit of an explanation

00:04:40 Kevin Mako: about what a hardware maker space is. And then we'll get into some more details about what makes a space great.

00:04:47 Tom Pupo: And then what it can do for you, the inventors, the innovators, the product startups that can really help elevate what you're doing with your product and your product

00:04:55 Tom Pupo: business. Sure. So maker spaces are essentially a giant shared community workshop.

00:05:02 Tom Pupo: People pay a membership and they have access to not only all the tools that are in the space, but also renting space out

00:05:08 Tom Pupo: to actually have a little studio where you can actually build and tinker your projects in. And so, you know, more popular in North America is the co-working idea.

00:05:17 Tom Pupo: You know, you rent out an office desk and you'll get access to, you know, a coffee maker and a printer and things like that.

00:05:22 Tom Pupo: But this is the same idea except you're not just getting that space. You're getting access to 3D printers to laser cutters, CNC machines, circuitry labs.

00:05:31 Tom Pupo: So basically all the tools that you would need to essentially create your first prototype before moving on to mass scale manufacturing.

00:05:39 Tom Pupo: Amazing. And what makes a space great? Yeah. So a great maker space essentially is broken down into three things. It's the amount of space.

00:05:48 Tom Pupo: Sometimes makerspaces are kind of small because they're a rag-tag team of designers and producers that put their own money into it and they don't have that much space.

00:05:56 Tom Pupo: But a great space will actually have a lot of space, right? You need the physical square footage to actually assemble and store

00:06:04 Tom Pupo: all your materials and products. The first thing you want to see is a place that has a lot of square footage. And then the second thing would be the tools.

00:06:13 Tom Pupo: Again, MakerSpace is a huge umbrella term that can mean something that is inside of a school

00:06:19 Tom Pupo: library or a lab all the way up to a full almost manufacturing scale space. So you've got to find the maker space that has the right tools that you're looking for

00:06:28 Tom Pupo: your idea or for your product. So some of them lean towards the woodworking side. Some of them are more on the electronic side. So they call those hackerspaces.

00:06:36 Tom Pupo: But typically a maker space will have broad range of tools from analog all the way up to high-powered water jetting.

00:06:44 Tom Pupo: Find the one that makes most sense for you and has the tools that you need to get your ideas out. And then the last thing is really people. I mean, space and tools

00:06:53 Tom Pupo: are only so valuable, right? You need a wide range of people in the community who will help push you and mentor you and teach you new things.

00:07:00 Tom Pupo: So that's really key piece of the pie there. If you walk into a space that only has a specific expertise or a lot of people at the same

00:07:09 Tom Pupo: industry, that might get you somewhere, but if you're looking for ideas that think out of the box, a space that has industrial designers, architects, sculptors,

00:07:19 Kevin Mako: artists, you know, graphic designers, all different kinds of creators, that's a huge wealth of access to make friends

00:07:26 Kevin Mako: with them and collaborate with them on getting your product and your idea launched.

00:07:31 Kevin Mako: So space, tools, and people. Let's talk about the first two for a little bit. I love that you mention that makerspaces are that's essentially an umbrella term because

00:07:41 Kevin Mako: that's one of the misconceptions if somebody's saying, okay, look, I want to get out of my house and I want to do

00:07:46 Kevin Mako: something with my product, especially as a startup inventor, one of the early appeals is, well,

00:07:51 Kevin Mako: just go, you know, rent a desk or hot space or get a membership at one of these spaces, but it's important to know which space you're getting involved with because they do have

00:07:58 Kevin Mako: different slants and tilts as to what they cater to, what types of products, what stage they are in a life cycle, they really hit home. Yeah.

00:08:08 Kevin Mako: And that's where if you look at the different spaces and you realize, okay, I'm developing a physical hardware product, look for a space that has other similar members.

00:08:17 Kevin Mako: That's probably the easiest way to say, what companies are in there now? Do I feel like I resemble them? Maybe your earlier phase, that's okay.

00:08:24 Kevin Mako: Or maybe you're aspiring to get there. You're seeing a space that has similar things to what you're trying to do, which of course

00:08:29 Kevin Mako: comes around to the people, which to me is the biggest part and kind of the piece of the puzzle

00:08:34 Kevin Mako: for makerspaces that isn't really, the value isn't fully understood until you're actually in one. It's so much bigger than you think it is because you are now surrounded

00:08:44 Tom Pupo: by incredible like-minded individuals, service providers, partners, you name it, all within one physical

00:08:51 Tom Pupo: location, let alone all the other things that are connected outside of that actual location to these sorts of things. All that becomes very powerful to helping you build a hardware

00:09:00 Tom Pupo: startup. Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, it goes beyond just creating your own idea. I mean, lending your ideas to others as well is extremely valuable.

00:09:10 Tom Pupo: And we've noticed some organic relationships that have happened just from, you know, hosting a makeathon or hosting some sort of networking

00:09:18 Kevin Mako: at the maker space where someone's pitching an idea and they're talking to, unbeknownst to them, a Fortune 500 company or a multi-billion dollar company.

00:09:27 Kevin Mako: And they say, hey, let's run with that. Let's test that. And so you never know where those networks and those relationships will lead you.

00:09:34 Kevin Mako: We've had a lot of great experience with Makerspaces, Moonlighter, obviously in Miami,

00:09:39 Kevin Mako: circuit launch out of San Francisco and now a recent partnership we've got with Launchpad out of Toronto. And it's incredible in these spaces just to see how alive they

00:09:48 Kevin Mako: are with just stuff going on. One day, the mayor's in town and in the actual space. The next day, a TV show is filming there.

00:09:56 Kevin Mako: You know, the next day you've got some tour with a, you know, a university group that's coming through, a bunch of students that are trying to learn.

00:10:03 Kevin Mako: There's just so much activity, especially as they start to grow and flourish, that as any kind of hardware startup in the space, you can't help but just feel that vibrance.

00:10:13 Kevin Mako: And it's one of many options that you can utilize to both build a product,

00:10:18 Kevin Mako: launch it and to scale it. Obviously, there's many options and many ways to do it. And I'm not saying that one's better than the other, but it's certainly important to consider

00:10:26 Kevin Mako: your own personality, the product you're trying to develop and the resources that are available at a space to think about is a hardware space for me.

00:10:33 Tom Pupo: And at what point should I get involved? So let's talk about the timing issue there because we have people on the show that just

00:10:39 Tom Pupo: have the initial idea, those who are building and developing it, those who have launched and those who are scaling and growing their product business.

00:10:47 Tom Pupo: Where does a maker space fit into that or what things should they be looking for at different life cycles of this product journey?

00:10:54 Tom Pupo: Yeah. And I think the interesting thing about a microspace is that it actually fits in almost any one of

00:10:59 Tom Pupo: the phases until you're ready to go to market because at that point, really, you take your finalized designs and you go to a manufacturer.

00:11:06 Tom Pupo: But in a lot of the early phases, it's actually really valuable to visit a local maker space. Let's say you have no idea about how to physically

00:11:15 Tom Pupo: construct your idea. That's okay. A lot of walk-ins that we get into the maker space are actually these folks who say, I have an idea and what's next.

00:11:23 Tom Pupo: And so usually we partner with them with someone who's working in a space that has the niche that they're looking to fill and somebody

00:11:31 Tom Pupo: with an idea who has an access to that kind of space and actually sees the manufacturing processes behind creating that idea, making it physical and making it real.

00:11:39 Tom Pupo: That's really invaluable because understanding how these different machines and manufacturing processes work unlocks all sorts of pivots to making that idea a reality.

00:11:49 Tom Pupo: You might have something in your head, but when you see the actual limitations of how machines work, that magic idea of just, you know, pressing a button and it pops out.

00:11:57 Tom Pupo: You need to have the right expertise, the right knowledge, the right person using the machine, and understanding how these machines work.

00:12:03 Tom Pupo: And actually, that process is actually very messy.

00:12:05 Kevin Mako: You know, obviously it's a little frustrating sometimes. It's like, well, I really want it to come out like this. But the people who persist

00:12:10 Kevin Mako: and continue to test and prototype in the maker space talk to others and get, you know, ideas on how to optimize their ideas.

00:12:17 Kevin Mako: Usually the product comes out better because now they're taking into account that manufacturing side that is often forgotten.

00:12:25 Kevin Mako: in the process of, you know, just generating that initial idea. And that's a big part which makes a maker space very different than a co-working location. You mentioned it earlier.

00:12:33 Kevin Mako: Co-working is kind of just you're sharing an office space, whereas a maker space is a very

00:12:37 Tom Pupo: unique type of space that really revolves around machines. Yeah. And that is a core difference, especially for all of us that are in the hardware space,

00:12:46 Tom Pupo: machines are necessary to build what we do. So it's really good to understand how do you get through all those points to make the thing,

00:12:52 Tom Pupo: the vision that you have actually work out and to be a manufacturing, actually commercially viable product at the end, which is so critical.

00:13:00 Tom Pupo: Yeah, and you know, if you look at history, for example, like the Bauhaus movement that led a way of thinking about how to create products.

00:13:08 Tom Pupo: You know, you had architects and furniture designers bending tubes in a certain way. And so it was just explorations of using a tube bender and

00:13:15 Tom Pupo: testing different angles and seeing what the ergonomics of these curves, finding really efficient and affordable methods of creating these things.

00:13:22 Tom Pupo: Or one of the best known examples is like the Dove Soap that weird shape that Dove Soap has, that was actually one of the workshops that the Bauhaus led

00:13:30 Kevin Mako: in carving materials and getting something that's ergonomic and feels good in your hand.

00:13:34 Kevin Mako: And so one of the students of the Bauhaus actually was the person who pioneered that curved bar of soap for Dove.

00:13:40 Kevin Mako: It's really getting a hands-on approach to generating ideas and thinking outside of the box and thinking of each of these tools as like an extension of yourself, your own ideas,

00:13:50 Kevin Mako: how to shape the world around us to create better things. very well said you mentioned a couple things that I think are critically important we've talked about

00:13:58 Kevin Mako: it on other episodes as well it's a bit of a sidebar from makerspaces but prototyping test tweak

00:14:04 Kevin Mako: get feedback refine prototype again repeat the cycle until you really come up with a great product

00:14:10 Kevin Mako: and it's interesting to hear from you who've seen so many hardware startups come through your doors to see the value of the prototyping phase in particular prototyping

00:14:19 Kevin Mako: phase isn't like one thing to get that one product, that thing that you can now take to Kickstarter or Indiegogo or start selling, that is part of the process.

00:14:28 Kevin Mako: But the bigger part of the process is for your design and engineering team, whether it's yourself or an outsource team like Macua Design, it's for them to

00:14:34 Kevin Mako: figure out what's working and not working. And then for you to take that to users, you know,

00:14:39 Kevin Mako: be it small groups or large groups or whatever it might be to try and get feedback to improve the

00:14:44 Tom Pupo: design, as well as to figure out the manufacturability of that design, so much which comes into

00:14:48 Tom Pupo: that prototyping phase and that engineering phase, especially when you get to the design,

00:14:51 Tom Pupo: to the DFM design for manufacturing portion going into actual production itself, it all comes down to testing and refining. And that is something that is critical.

00:14:59 Tom Pupo: And of course, a maker space and really help elevate that whole process, both in the feedback loop, but also in the technology you're

00:15:05 Tom Pupo: able to enact and use within the space, the people that are there to help you improve on that feedback loop. Yeah. And I think that kind of goes down to the education portion.

00:15:14 Tom Pupo: So our maker space in particular has three core circles. We have that co-working option where, you know, different people are renting out space and building their ideas there.

00:15:23 Tom Pupo: We have the Fab Lab, which is really the heart, it has all the tools and machines. And then that last component is the Steam Learning Center.

00:15:28 Tom Pupo: We actually have a series of workshops and community events that teach people

00:15:33 Kevin Mako: design thinking, which is really a critical, critical underpinning to the entire process. Starting with empathy and thinking about the end user, removing your own biases.

00:15:43 Kevin Mako: A lot of people say I have an idea and it's really based on their lens or the way that they see the world, but implementing

00:15:50 Kevin Mako: empathy and understanding how that product will actually be used, that goes on to shape a much, much better product at the end. Amazing.

00:15:58 Kevin Mako: And there's so many different pieces of education that are emerging, I think, around hardware makerspaces.

00:16:03 Kevin Mako: I'd like to hear from you, like, you're seeing this happening probably across from coast to coast, but it's becoming a larger, I guess, goal of makerspaces, even

00:16:10 Kevin Mako: co-working spaces as well, to bring education as to be a core pillar. You mentioned it's one of your three core pillars to the entire organization.

00:16:18 Tom Pupo: I think that's very good to see because that's, again, another one of those less seen value adds to a facility like this.

00:16:26 Tom Pupo: And I think it's only going to grow considerably in the future as more and more education programming comes in and surrounds itself around these spaces. You're learning

00:16:33 Tom Pupo: at university and college level. But there's also a strong emphasis on real world learning. And that's

00:16:38 Tom Pupo: really where the makerspaces can excel to say, here's how some of the best people in the world are doing X, Y, Z in practicality, not just in theory.

00:16:46 Tom Pupo: Yeah. And I think really the maker space is almost the purest experience of being, you know, able to explore any one of these many, many industries, right?

00:16:56 Tom Pupo: So, you know, if you're in higher education, once you kind of pick a track, you know, you're kind of locked into, you know, that specific field of study. For example,

00:17:05 Kevin Mako: when I was studying and I realized, okay, we're going to eventually open a makerspace. I want to take some business courses.

00:17:10 Kevin Mako: But if I wasn't in the MBA program, I'd be kind of locked out of some of those classes. In a maker space, you can actually test these things, work.

00:17:18 Tom Pupo: with people who are with different backgrounds and knowledge, you know, go to these different workshops with experts in the field who are doing those specific techniques.

00:17:26 Tom Pupo: It's all open access. And so that's the exciting thing. It's really it's almost the most democratic form of learning and making and doing that you can find anywhere.

00:17:35 Kevin Mako: Well, Tom, so much appreciated for the words of wisdom today and all the advice on how maker spaces work, how you can utilize them, the benefits and everything else.

00:17:44 Kevin Mako: How can folks learn more about Moonlighter? Well, they can go to moonlighter fablab.org.

00:17:50 Tom Pupo: We're also on YouTube and Instagram and all the social platforms. You can see what all of our members are up to and what they're creating.

00:17:58 Tom Pupo: Once the new space is open, they'll be able to visit us at 1661 Pennsylvania Avenue in Miami Beach. Right on. I'm looking forward to it as well.

00:18:07 Tom Pupo: And I know our team is looking forward to moving in as well and building some great projects there. As always, I will put all the show links that Tom mentioned there into the show

00:18:15 Tom Pupo: note so if anyone wants to click through.

00:18:18 Tom Pupo: In any case, thanks again, Tom. Looking forward to

00:18:20 Narrator: to chatting you again. Take care. Thanks. How good one. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Product Startup Podcast, the show that teaches you what it really

00:18:30 Narrator: takes to bring your product to market and turn it into a big success. This podcast series is brought to you by

00:18:37 Narrator: Mako Design + Invent, the original and leading firm in North America to provide global

00:18:42 Narrator: caliber in-to-end physical consumer product development to startups, inventors, and small product business clients.

00:18:50 Narrator: If you're looking for product development help on your invention, head over to MakoDesign.com.

00:18:56 Narrator: That's M-A-K-O Design dot com for a free consultation from one of Mako-designs for design studios from coast to coast.

00:19:05 Narrator: Thanks for listening and see you next time.