Listen Now
Guest: Elizabeth Versace, founder of Ecococoon.
Host: Kevin Mako, founder of Product Startup and the leading expert in hardware startup consulting. A hardware entrepreneur since 1999, Kevin has advised more than 1,500 founders and built and scaled MAKO Invent through its acquisition by TriMech in 2024.
Creating New Value From an Existing Product Category
Elizabeth Versace explains why a founder may build on an existing product instead of starting from an entirely new design. She discusses integrating a one-way valve into drinkware, moving through development, and using nostalgia to give the product a memorable marketing angle.
Episode transcript
This transcript is provided for accessibility and reference. Download the SRT transcript.
Read the full episode transcript
Filip Valica: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Product Startup Podcast, a podcast that helps bring your product idea to life by chatting with successful inventors, product designers, and other industry professionals. This podcast is run by Mako
Filip Valica: Design + Invent, and hosted by Filip Valica. Our goal here is to get to the bottom of what makes a product successful, from initial idea to putting your product on the shelf. We're taking you step by step to build a functional product and scale your product business. Now onto the show.
Filip Valica: The Product Startup Podcast, Episode 31. In today's episode, we learned from Elizabeth Versace. She worked with an industrial designer and pioneered the Ecococoon cap, stainless steel, drinkware cap to be leak-free and spill-proof.
Filip Valica: We're going to get into all the technical details of how she brought this new design from concept to prototyping through engineering and manufacturing. So let's get started.
Filip Valica: Welcome to the Product Startup Podcast, helping you turn ideas into successful products step by step with your host,
Filip Valica: Philip Belizeza. In the last episode, we talked with John Smith. He's a forester turned designer turned perfumer. And in the last year of his industrial design degree, he started Libertine Fragrance to learn the side of product development that his degree didn't teach him.
Filip Valica: And he's been growing his business ever since. So make sure to check out episode 30 if you want to hear more about how he started his business without any industry knowledge for under $500.
Filip Valica: Before we get started, I also wanted to highlight Pineapple Guys review on iTunes, who wrote, this is a well-made podcast with a lot of good information. Philip always has a great tip for those who want to bring a product to market.
Filip Valica: I have yet to get my ideas to market, but Philip definitely answers many of the questions I have about product development. Keep it up, Philip. Thank you to everybody that writes in to help improve the show. I really appreciate it. I'm definitely trying to build something that's useful for everybody.
Filip Valica: So please don't hesitate to shoot me a line if you feel like I can make the show better for you. Before we get started with our scheduled interview, I wanted to share an update from David Frankl of the Perky Caller.
Filip Valica: Since we last talked to David back in episode two, he's made some incredible progress getting into retailers and being able to increase awareness of his brand. Hi, David. Thank you again for coming on the show.
Filip Valica: This is going to make the first gets that's come on the product startup podcast twice since we started. Well, thank you again. I really appreciate the opportunity. You were in a couple dozen retailers, and since then you've grown to a couple of hundred.
Filip Valica: please share how you've been able to do that and what you've done since then. Sure.
Filip Valica: The key is this the daily grind and making your calls to retailers all across the country. I went to current
Filip Valica: trade shows in 2016, everything from Las Vegas to Charlotte had a couple trade shows. I had a couple trade shows up in Minneapolis for the North Coast Buyers show.
Filip Valica: While I was actually in Vegas, I went from 60 retailers all up to 100, so that was a big push in February of this year. And then one of the people I met at the trade show, which is another big advantage of trade shows, is not only what to sell, but also who you meet.
Filip Valica: And I met a gentleman that owned a store in Cape Girardo, Missouri, and he was a member and on the board of Northwest Buyers. Well, because he bought the product and had great sell-through, he then invited me to be part of the Northwest Buyers Group, which has over 300 retailers.
Filip Valica: So since me and him, I've got into 40 of the Northwest Buyers retailers as well. So that's helped me get up to, you know, 228 retailers now, across 37 different states,
Filip Valica: plus because of Vegas, I'm in Mexico, Bahamas, as well as Canada. So it's been a daily grind and not taking no for an answer and just keep pushing forward. Wow, that's really great progress. People that are listening to are thinking 12 trade shows, that's going to break the bank.
Filip Valica: Has it been really expensive to do that? Is it a big investment? It is. And honestly, that's been my biggest marketing between trade shows and social media. I keep looking back and saying, you know, I could spend, you know, $25,000 on random marketing.
Filip Valica: marketing or $50,000 or hire a peer firm for a half million dollars. But then you're going to make a half million dollars. You really haven't gotten anywhere. So I'm really trying to do a bootstrapping effect and try and just grow through social media
Filip Valica: and try and grow through the trade shows. And that's where I spend my money because I'm in front of retailers and in front of people. I'm getting videos done that way, nice quality videos versus spending $5,000 on a video.
Filip Valica: So even though it's a little slower, I'm able to have great customer service. I'm able to meet the retail owners face to face. And I think it's really important. A lot of retailers won't answer the phone. We won't talk on the phone because they're busy helping customers.
Filip Valica: So trade shows really become that only way to interact with a one-on-one. Yeah, absolutely great tips. I love attending trade shows, even if it's just a guest on a free pass on the last day, just because, like you said, you get to meet a lot of interesting people.
Filip Valica: So you talked about getting into retail, and I know you've got some tips for people that are looking to get into retail stores, and with stores being a little bit hesitant to take on a new brand because they're, of course, looking for that traffic to be driven into their
Filip Valica: store. They're looking for you to help them increase their own sales. How are you able to do that for them? Sure. Well, I think that's definitely one of my differentiators, unlike any of the manufacturer, as soon as someone agrees to purchase, even just a dozen of the perky collars,
Filip Valica: because I realize for them it's a risk. It's unproven. They don't know if it's going to sell. There's a lot of unknowns. And just to try and help relieve that, I have a relatively low minimum. But as soon as they agree, even if purchased 12, I immediately liked their page on Facebook
Filip Valica: that my 4,000-plus followers can see that I'm supporting a local retailer. I then add them to my website. I think it's really important as a manufacturer to have a retailer tab on your website that people can go into the stores.
Filip Valica: So on my retail page, it's broken down by state and then by city. And I also list their name, address, phone number, and their websites. The people across the country can look at your retail first. If there's no stores local, then they can buy up my website.
Filip Valica: And then finally, I also do a shout-out on the Perky collar Facebook page. to put their name, address, phone number, welcome them to the perky color family, encourage people to shop in their store, then they go to the extra mile.
Filip Valica: And I take the time to go to their Facebook page and pull 2030 photographs from inside their store, a variety of product photographs, and add that to that post. To get people all across the globe a virtual tour of their store, hopefully encourage them
Filip Valica: to come in and spend $300,500,000, on other stuff, suits, pants, jackets,
Filip Valica: belts, and then hopefully as they're checking out, they pick up a perky collar as well. that's a great tip for everybody because like you said stores don't have enough sales personnel and so they're looking for help to you know even increase their own sales and so thanks for
Filip Valica: sharing that tip and you know helping drive engagement you had a unique way of increasing christmas sales you share your idea for creating a stocking stuffer you know the perky cal is a
Filip Valica: great product it can stay in alone but i think sometimes you have to help give retail owners an idea of how to make the perky caler a bigger product than it actually is even and that's what I've created, it's called a perky collar gift set. And because the box is bigger than the
Filip Valica: perky collar itself, there's space within the perky collar to put other things. So I've gone into a handful of retailers in around Charlotte, and I've taken a pocket square with little purple accent. I've taken a lapel pin that matches that purple. I found some cuff links that has a little
Filip Valica: purple accent. And I put a set of color stays in there as well. And we've created kind of a perky collar gift set. And now it's not just $20 anymore. Now it's $75 to $100 to $150 based on the value of the things in that perky collar gift set. You can use a perky collar prop the lid open,
Filip Valica: and it just becomes a really easy stocking stuff, or it folds all down the box, and it becomes a great little gift for that special someone, or even for yourself, to have all those accessories, the price tags higher, therefore the margins are higher, and everybody wins. The customer walks
Filip Valica: away with something that obviously took time to coordinate, and the retail owner walks away with a bigger sale, and I walk away with more perky collars moving and being tried by customers everywhere that normally just wear open-collar dress shirts and don't realize the benefit of a perky collar.
Filip Valica: That's a great tip. And earlier, you just mentioned that you had 5,000 followers on Facebook, and that's something that you didn't have when we were talking last time. So basically in a year's time, you've been able to grow that following. How have you been able to do that?
Filip Valica: What's been your most effective tool in social media? I think it's just being transparent. I've used a lot of Facebook groups. I've been searching for fashion groups. I've been searching for people that are into pocket squares, searching people. people that are just in the style.
Filip Valica: I'm not only on Facebook, but also Twitter, Instagram, Pinterest,
Filip Valica: Tumblr, and even recently, Etsy. And I think the cross-referencing of all these different social media channels has really helped me build that. And also I joined a group here in Charlotte called Charlotte Scene, which is a fashion organization. They have fashion shows throughout the Charlotte market.
Filip Valica: And getting my product in front of those people and having them like my product and having conversation with them at the shows, then like them as well, send them a friend request, and that's helped me build a personal. And again, just expanding that network of people in fashion, care about how they look.
Filip Valica: I'm going to a show this weekend called Be Groomed Expo, and it's in Atlanta. And because of Powerful Men in Style, also on Facebook, I'm able to now promote that Expo this Sunday through Powerful Men of Style.
Filip Valica: And I'm able to grow people that are following Powerful Mental Style, then they're starting to follow Perky Collar because it's all relative. It's all ways to help people look better.
Filip Valica: Great to partnering up with other people that have followings and, like you said, tapping into other events that are going on that you can get into and cross-market your product.
Filip Valica: Have you had any success with participating in nonprofit auctions or like donation type events? I've had friends that sell products have really good luck with donating product for like United Way options and that type of thing just to get the word out.
Filip Valica: I did that the end of last year for cookies for cancer because I'm always a – I also have a – soccer business and working with kids from three, I went up to 14, and having my parents both pass away from cancer, I have a big heart for people that have cancer or dealt with cancer.
Filip Valica: Cookies for cancer has been a real special organization for me, and what I did last year, they went to give a donation of $20 or more, we threw in a perky collar. That's great. So it was just a nice way to, around the holidays last year, if someone was willing to give a $15 donation, maybe they gave a $20 donation, so they got a free product as well for
Filip Valica: their husband or brother or father or whatever the case may be. That's really the only nonprofit I really work with. There's obviously a lot of great non-profits out there. I just haven't coordinated with other ones yet, but I look forward to that opportunity
Filip Valica: and helping more people get bigger donations just by offering my product as a little incentive to increase those donations. Well, so speaking of helping people, how would you advise somebody now that is back where you were in February, in January, when we first talked?
Filip Valica: How would you advise them to kind of grow their business and their brand? I think it just comes down to working smart, getting into the trade shows because it's got great experience. The hard part is the finances, because you have to set aside a decent amount of money to get in front of these people.
Filip Valica: You've got to pay for hotel. You've got to pay for food. You've got to pay for the booth. You know, New York and Las Vegas is $6,000 each. Those are your two premier trade shows. The rest of them are 1,000 or less. I think Chicago is 2,000.
Filip Valica: But get yourself out there and, you know, save your money and reinvest back in your business. You know, obviously it's great when you make money and just spend money and live a larger life, buy a new car, buy new house. But you know what? You're going to need that money to grow the business.
Filip Valica: So be careful about if your revenue is doing great, don't spend it on yourself, spend it back on the business. So the business can continue to grow and focus each month on growth, whether it's 5%, 10%, 20%,
Filip Valica: try and find something you can do this month that you didn't do last month that can make your business grow. Try and make your product desirable throughout the year and not just certain times of the year because you want that stability.
Filip Valica: Your bills come every month, so you need to have that stable income coming through every single month as well. Obviously, some will have peak times, but just get out there. talk to people, do demos. And demos, I let my retailers take all the sales, which is great for them.
Filip Valica: But it also built a tighter, more dedicated relationship with a retailer. And I've dedicated December to be demo month. I offered all my retailers in North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia that would come in for free and sell the product for them.
Filip Valica: And again, no manufacturers doing this, but this is how I separate myself from other manufacturers to help them move product and to help inspire them to believe in the product and sell it once I leave.
Filip Valica: So those are things that really make me different and separate me from other manufacturers that are out there. David, great advice as always. Thank you again for sharing all your tips and your success and your experience with us.
Filip Valica: Where can people go and find the Perky Collar if they're still looking for that last-minute gift? Sure. The easiest way is on my website, which is Perky, spelled P-E-R-K-Y, the word collar, C-O-L-L-A-R-com.
Filip Valica: And then you can also check the retailer tab on the website for, to see what retailers are near you, if there's nothing near you, then it obviously can buy right right off the website as well. If there's anyone that needs help or has any questions, you know, they can always reach me via info at perky LLC.com as an email.
Filip Valica: Then Facebook, I'm on Perky LLC and I'm on Perky Collar. And then obviously my name directly is on Facebook as well. David, thanks again for coming on the show. My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me, and I look forward to another follow-up down
Filip Valica: the road. I really enjoy having past guests on the show, update us on things that are working
Elizabeth Versace: for them and share some of their tips on what they've done to improve their business since we last spoke. If you want to hear more about how David got started with the perky collar,
Elizabeth Versace: check out the product startup.com slash episode two. Now on to today's show. Hi, Libby. Thanks for joining me on this show today. Thanks, Philip. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate your time.
Elizabeth Versace: Why don't we just go back to the very beginning when you first had the idea for Eco Cacoon, even before you knew what you were going to maybe even call the product? Why did you think, think that there was a need for another company that manufactures these types of products?
Elizabeth Versace: I lived overseas in Hong Kong for about 10 years and I came back with two little girls and I was basically just, I've always been interested in products, design, everything like that.
Elizabeth Versace: It's always interested me. I'm like a radar when I go shopping and I wanted to do something that was compatible with having kid, which of course is not how it is now. because it's so busy.
Elizabeth Versace: Probably it started way back when the idea of having plastic water bottles was not particularly safe with BPA. And so I had a whole cupboard full of pretty looking bottles, but they leaked, they underperform, they were just terrible.
Elizabeth Versace: And by the time you'd have them for a couple of months, they'd be sort of not performing at all. And you'd think, oh my goodness, what's the problem? Why can't we just have a good bottle that's made of stainless steel and it has no taste taint?
Elizabeth Versace: and that's how I came up with how can I produce a bottle that performs. There were all different types of bottles that I had where you had bite valves that you had to pull up with your teeth
Elizabeth Versace: and I think one of my kids lost their two front teeth with doing that. And, you know, they're all different ones, straws are one of thing that, straws are very good in terms of a design thing for children but they're very hard to clean.
Elizabeth Versace: They harbor a lot of bacteria and also replacement parts was a really big thing as well.
Filip Valica: So I decided that why did I just make a bottle that my kids and our use? And I went through the process of going, right, I need a bottle that has to do this, this and this and this.
Filip Valica: And it took a really long time, but it was definitely worth the development of doing it. Unfortunately, I couldn't release a bottle when I actually launched Eco Cacoon.
Filip Valica: I started off with a different product in Drinkwear, which was stainless steel cups. so it was a it was a very long process my thinking was is to produce something that was like no other
Elizabeth Versace: and performed in inform and function that's a great inspiration and just to clarify so when you said you came back with two children they were actually your children someone's not missing two children
Elizabeth Versace: my children yes they're now 16 and 13s so when you were creating the brand and you're thinking about some of the products that you were building i'm sure there was probably similar products out there on the market.
Elizabeth Versace: You mentioned some of the plastic bottles and things that didn't perform as well. Were there any other stainless variants on the market? Did you think that maybe your idea was too close to something else? Or was it something that was just completely a product that maybe hadn't had any traction in Australia yet?
Elizabeth Versace: It had just begun. It was sort of on the crest of a wave, basically, that there was a Swiss brand that had aluminium bottles with an inner lining. And they were very pillar.
Elizabeth Versace: and there were yes definitely it was just the beginning but I think what I wanted to do is pretty much anyone could go to a factory wherever in the world choose a product off their shelf
Elizabeth Versace: and go yep I'll manufacture those they're great that'll put some pretty stuff on them I'll paint them nice colors etc I really wanted to make a very big point of difference
Elizabeth Versace: And I think that that's what occurred with the design of the Ecococoon cap, which is the mouthpiece. That really is what I wanted to do is make it different, make that the defining part of the bottle,
Elizabeth Versace: that basically there's no leaking, there's no movable parts, and also the fact that having a bottle
Filip Valica: and having a single wall, which is basically all of them at that time, the condensation with a single wall bottle, whether it's stainless steel or plastic, You know, there's a lot of sweating and condensation that goes on kids' desks and office desks and
Filip Valica: gym equipment and what have you. And I wanted to have something that had an insulation
Elizabeth Versace: property, which is the vacuum insulation. And that's how I sort of came up with the whole idea
Filip Valica: of like, we've got to have a bottle that does everything. It keeps your water cold or warm or whatever beverage you want. That was the whole idea of it. And the defining difference was the Ecococoon cap,
Filip Valica: which took two and a half years to produce and to launch, basically. And I would definitely get into some of that detail. I remember when, like you mentioned, the aluminum bottles came out here in the States because we had something similar. Like you said, they were lined with some sort of a material on the inside.
Filip Valica: And then there was a scandal because people were saying that that plastic lining was causing some similar issues. I think there was a BPA content in it, which was the really big, I know. And it was devastating for that company, but they're still around.
Filip Valica: They pivoted. That's right. As you went through this process, and it's interesting that you say that you didn't want to go this
Elizabeth Versace: private labelling route where, like you said, you pick something that's standard off the shelf and you rebrand it for your brand and your marketing. Yeah. Why don't we talk about the product that you launched first for now?
Elizabeth Versace: You said you launched these stainless steel drink cups, and thanks again for sending me this care package. So now I'm able to kind of hold these items while we have this conversation.
Elizabeth Versace: What I thought was really cool was that it reminded me of cups that maybe you could get in a camping set, but elevated, and they certainly hold more liquid, nice and polished on the outside, and they were shipped in this neoprene.
Elizabeth Versace: And initially, I thought that neoprene was acted as an insulation for if you wanted to pour yourself a hot coffee. It can actually. The cups that you're holding, they're single wall. They're not a vacuum insulated.
Elizabeth Versace: And the cups that we originally launched with the company, they are actually colourful, painted cups. And when you said it reminds you of camping cups, I'm not sure whether this occurred in the US.
Elizabeth Versace: But I know in Australia that I guess I'm 43 and born in the 70s. So I think every household had a set of anodised aluminium cups. And anadised aluminium is a far different material than stainless steel.
Elizabeth Versace: But everyone had them. And they were loved. They were used. when you drank out of them, you could taste the aluminium and there were bite marks in them. They were, you know,
Filip Valica: but they were well loved. And I think a lot of, I know for a fact that just talking to customers that, you know, I got one of these, I had a set of aluminium cups for my 21st birthday.
Elizabeth Versace: And so it was sort of, it really struck a great sentimental chord with customers.
Elizabeth Versace: And I guess we, what happened is that I introduced them as a different material, which is stainless steel and it really it was a very very successful product to have and it was just
Elizabeth Versace: sort of like an introduction to the market and that retro sentimentality is a very powerful thing in marketing and getting people to purchase and love the product that they buy you're hoping
Elizabeth Versace: to tap into some of that nostalgia that people felt yeah but improve on the product in a way and kind of create a classic product in your own way exactly Exactly.
Elizabeth Versace: And it was just by chance, actually, I was visiting my factory in China. And I was sitting there. I remember it was bleakly cold in January. And we were sitting around
Elizabeth Versace: the table. I had a translator with me. I don't think I really needed a translator, but it helped a little bit. But I actually saw this was a product off the shelf. And
Filip Valica: I said, what about this? And I said, I'm really, and as soon as I saw it, I went, Bing, it was just, I went, that's fantastic. We need to do something. something like that. But what we did is we added colour. So it replicated the idea of the
Filip Valica: anodised aluminium cups that came in all different colours. And they came in a vinyl zip top little carry case similar to what we have now. But we've got the neoprene, which is probably more
Filip Valica: durable. And you can throw them in your glove box and put them in your picnic camper. You can
Elizabeth Versace: use them every day. They were just basically a modern version of the old anodised aluminium cup set. I don't know whether it was destiny or whatever, but it was just a whim that I went, oh, man, this is what we need.
Elizabeth Versace: It's interesting that you took that chance because I think people now would look at it and I guess this was nine years ago, around 2007. Yeah, 2008. I was there. Yeah.
Elizabeth Versace: I imagine that even at that point, it would have almost been a harder sell to convince people that, hey, this is something cool that you needed in the house, that you didn't want
Elizabeth Versace: this pushed off into the sporting goods stores as camping gear.
Filip Valica: This was something that had more functions. Why did you take that chance? What made you say that, you know what? I think this is coming back. I work a lot on instinct,
Filip Valica: which is not really great for some of my staff.
Elizabeth Versace: I go, come out, let's just do it and without really looking into it in an analytical way. But I knew instantly that it would be a very popular product and it has been.
Elizabeth Versace: And we've actually peddled back a little bit on the arrangement of cups that we provide in color because we have other really innovative products that we produce. To me, it just, it made sense
Elizabeth Versace: straight away. And I think it was luck. I'm not sure, but I just knew that it would really strike a chord with customers. Did you just buy a huge lot and hope that it hit? Or did you kind of
Elizabeth Versace: put your toe in the water, so to speak, and maybe get a smaller sample purchase and maybe go out there and test it in a way? I didn't market test it. I actually said, this is it. I was under
Elizabeth Versace: the very naive consideration that a bottle could be completed and a mouthpiece that could be done would be done in like a six-month period. And I knew that that wasn't going to occur because
Elizabeth Versace: there was a lot of steps that had to go through to get that up and running. So I guess I needed a product to put eco-cocoon in the market, get it noticed and have something that was an interim
Elizabeth Versace: product that is not an interim product, it's still there. I ordered the product and it was
Filip Valica: certainly very well received and it basically flowed on from there. We went from, I think we were the first company in the world actually to release the stainless steel cups. There's a lot of other
Elizabeth Versace: companies that do it now. There's college companies with standstill beer pong and everything like that. It's quite fun. But at the time it was just we had colored and we had colored and illustrated
Elizabeth Versace: for children. And then we also branched out into high polish with laser etching. So it was very innovative. It was something different. And that's what made it successful. And I know when people
Filip Valica: want something, they'll call you for it. And I was always contacted from overseas distributors and people from Amazon US and stuff like that. So it was unique. That's the big difference of it. And
Filip Valica: it's just a timing thing. Congratulations on taking that risk and seeing that demand and just running for it. I
Elizabeth Versace: think a lot of people would be scared off. Did you self-fund this or did you bring in family savings to fund your first order? Yeah, it was self-funded and that was the first order. It was a
Elizabeth Versace: considerable amount of money, but it wasn't enough to put us in the gutter. Right. So it was basically
Filip Valica: a build on funds that occurred. But of course, the complication with more product, more development of the Ecococoon cap really took a lot of funds out of it. And it gave us a good start anyway. It was
Filip Valica: very good. I'm really surprised that you were able to go somewhere where they had this stainless steel cup and the design was complete, so to speak, but no one else was carrying it. I guess they didn't have that vision that you did and that just says that, you know, you need
Filip Valica: to trust your gut. Exactly. I think on an instinct and trusting how you feel sometimes doesn't sound very savvy business-wise, but a lot of the time you just have to do that in certain
Elizabeth Versace: circumstances and I fortunately I made the right decision it could have gone a different way as well but it was a good thing so you talked about having a product that establishes your brand and kind
Filip Valica: of sets the base for future products and I can definitely appreciate that I've got one product that I'm selling in Amazon that's somewhat similar in terms of it's a product that existed before
Filip Valica: and I asked for some changes to the design that wouldn't break the bank and so I'm kind of private labeling, so to speak, but it's not just the marketing. It's, you know, there's some changes to the design and the color with the intent that all the money that's coming from the first
Filip Valica: product is going to feed the second and third products that are from scratch designs that need
Elizabeth Versace: patenting and everything else. Which is really smart. And that's the thing that you just need to sort of have that. You have to build from the start. And obviously with all the design that you've got ahead of
Elizabeth Versace: you, takes a lot of time and money, of course, but it's worth it. It's definitely worth it. Well, let's talk about designing the bottle. The first impression of the bottle when I pulled it out of the box
Elizabeth Versace: was that it was really well built. You could feel that it's insulated, that it's got the double wall when you pick it up, that it's not just one of these standard bottles that you can pick off the shelf in the grocery store. That's just a single wall stainless steel canister that's
Elizabeth Versace: going to dent and condense. What it sounded like to me was that we're able to find the bottle through an existing manufacturer, but you wanted to put the spin on the cap. Is that right?
Filip Valica: Correct, yeah. With the bottle, I guess the whole idea of that being a cocoon, it insulates, it protect, all that sort of stuff came into being. That's why the company was
Filip Valica: called eco-cacoon from the start. The bottle was the end prize. I've actually changed factories from my original factory and have gone to a different one for varying reasons. But essentially,
Filip Valica: the bottle itself is off the shelf. A bottle is a bottle, but there is a very big difference between
Elizabeth Versace: a performing bottle and that's why the Ecococoon cap or the mouth is the champion of it and we really pride our products that are really good quality very high quality and our factory is a very
Elizabeth Versace: high quality producer and they look after us very well which is great when you started designing that cap you know you mentioned that you tried all these other caps that didn't quite work out fortunately your daughter lost her front teeth which is pretty crazy they had to go anyway
Elizabeth Versace: The price of success. That's right. Why did you come up with the design that you have now or what led you to come up with the concept? Were you inspired by anything else that was on the market?
Elizabeth Versace: Or was this something that was more brute force where you kept iterating the design until you finally had something that you thought you could run with? There was a particular company that had a plastic bottle that was quite good. But of course, it wasn't stainless steel.
Elizabeth Versace: I like the whole idea of having no leaking. And the problem is that working with stainless steel as a material, you can't squeeze it. So there has to be a force, which is, I guess, sucking like a baby's bottle, basically.
Elizabeth Versace: There are a lot of problems with that. So the biggest thing that I loved was the we have, and I'm sure in the US as well, there's particular food products that have valves on it, like we have honey that you can squeeze the bottle,
Elizabeth Versace: which is plastic. And there's no sort of, you know, honey going everywhere and stuff like that. and I thought that was just really clever, and it was basically getting down to what I wanted out of the bottle, and the no leak thing was just such a big thing because the amount of times
Elizabeth Versace: kids come back with wet school bags and wet, you know, homework and stuff like that.
Filip Valica: And I wanted something that appeared really simple, but wasn't.
Filip Valica: And that's how I came about
Elizabeth Versace: talking to my industrial designer. He was fantastic. I had actually spoken to probably about four or five before someone listening to me and saying, yep, I think we can do that. And I
Elizabeth Versace: almost fell off my chair thinking, someone is actually listening to me and someone actually believes that that's possible. So that's how it all started. And I just wanted something that had no
Elizabeth Versace: straws, no bite valves, no movable parts, something that was easy to clean, leakproof, and an insular water bottle that kept things cold or hot throughout the day. It's
Elizabeth Versace: It sounded unachievable, but it was certainly hard to get there, but we got there. Yeah, and so talk about that process a little bit. After you hired your designer, how was it working with him or her to create something? The fellow's name is Scott Farley.
Elizabeth Versace: He has his own industrial design business. He is tremendous. He's an inventor himself. And it was just a process of talking about it and going through the process of designing a cap,
Elizabeth Versace: looking at samples of the bottles, so the thread and everything like that was suitable. We actually have two versions of our cocoon cap, and it's so frustrating,
Elizabeth Versace: but the first cocoon cap was suited to our first factory, and the whole idea of the leak proof in terms of not so much the one-way valve, but the actual connection between the bottle and the mouthpiece
Elizabeth Versace: was the whole idea of a softer plastic meeting a harder plastic. It's kind of like if you bought a plastic bottle of Coke and you've got the harder bottle plastic
Elizabeth Versace: meets the softer plastic of the lid, it was that sort of concept. So we had a sharper rim on the original bottle and the whole idea of that was, you know,
Elizabeth Versace: there was nothing else other than the mouthpiece with the one-way valve and a lid which was just there to finish the product. Then, of course, we moved factories for various reasons and we had to adjust the tool
Elizabeth Versace: for the mouthpiece, which was really stressful, and the new bottle is far more finished. The rim, you can actually drink from the actual bottle without the mouthpiece. That's not a problem.
Elizabeth Versace: It's thicker, and there had to be adjustments to the tooling for the mouthpiece with that. So I guess when you think you've got everything all under control, you don't.
Filip Valica: And obviously, you know, moving to another factory with a similar product but different, It was certainly difficult, but we made it in the long run, which is really good. Our current bottle is what we have, and it's very good.
Filip Valica: We added a O-ring to it, which is ultrasonically put into the mouthpiece, and that's because that sharpness of the original bottle is no longer.
Filip Valica: So we had to have a tray between a sharp bottle where people going, oh, it's not very
Elizabeth Versace: nice to drink from without mouthpiece to a very well-finished, high-quality bottle with a thicker rim and that O-ring, ultrasonically welded in there, then ensured that there were
Elizabeth Versace: no leaks as well. So there's always processes and there's always disadvantages with moving factories, but we thought it was the right thing and it was. So we're very pleased with the final product. Did you feel that as you were iterating through the design, like was that something
Elizabeth Versace: that was frustrating or did you expect to kind of go back and forth a bit before you landed on the right solution? Who was driving that final solution? Did you think? feel like maybe you weren't satisfying yourself in a way because you had these high standards or
Elizabeth Versace: were you showing it to customers or other people and they were kind of giving you feedback to say, you know what? No, you need to go back and tweak it some more. No, we didn't have a test group.
Elizabeth Versace: It was my industrial designer and myself and staff that really tested the bottle through and through in the process of the development of the mouthpiece. The whole idea of an inlet valve which allows air to come through the bottle,
Elizabeth Versace: that was very troublesome in that it was very difficult to get that not to leak. And I found just through research and using drinkware products
Elizabeth Versace: in the past with my kids, whether it's a sippy cup and it's got an inlet valve, the kids will put something in it, whether it's a thing of a prong of a fork or something like that and
Elizabeth Versace: it will always be destroyed. So the whole idea of not having inlet valve was one big step that we went, do we really need an inlet valve? And we didn't. And it took a long time to get to that
Elizabeth Versace: stage. I always remember my industrial designer called me and I was in the car and he said in my deepest of hearts, I have just tried everything to get this right and I just cannot do it. It is impossible.
Elizabeth Versace: And I went, no worries. I believe you and I know that you've done everything you can. So that was one troublesome thing. The inlet valve that we don't have and we don't need. And it's actually a good
Elizabeth Versace: thing because there's no possible way of destroying that mouthpiece through a silicon piece with
Elizabeth Versace: air coming through. And the second probably most difficult and frustrating and just, I cannot explain how much we worked hard to get it was the actual one-way valve. The one-way valve is actually,
Elizabeth Versace: there's all different types and we've obviously got one for liquid, which is less viscous than, say, honey or pizza sauces and all that sort of stuff that they use in the food industry for these
Elizabeth Versace: valves. But essentially these valves were actually used in hospitals for IV drips. So the whole idea was blood contaminants would not go back into the IV bag or liquid. They're very innovative
Elizabeth Versace: and they've used in all different sectors around the world. So it took us probably a good 18 months to jump through the hoops to get the samples, get everything all ticked off by the medical company
Elizabeth Versace: and rightly so because they obviously, it is their product and we needed to adhere to their high
Filip Valica: standards. So whether it came from the assembly, the jigs that pushed the valves into the mouthpieces, everything had to be ticked off and there was a lot of engineering checks.
Filip Valica: It was a huge process and I think if I didn't have my industrial design,
Elizabeth Versace: who believed in the product. I think if I had someone else that went, oh, just, you know, do something else, we wouldn't have an eco-cocoon bottle. So it was a very long,
Filip Valica: frustrating process, but we just kept going. We wouldn't give in. And I think that's probably the biggest thing in business that
Elizabeth Versace: there's always going to be difficulty with the design that is yours or is different to what's in the market and it's just a matter of steaming ahead and fixing things that need to be fixed and
Elizabeth Versace: you'll have the end product. That's interesting that you said that because a lot of people will go through this process and say, gosh, that sounds really daunting. I don't know if I even want to start it. But the way that you approached it, because you had to jump through all those hoops and cross
Elizabeth Versace: those hurdles yourself, you know that there's probably a very small likelihood that another manufacturer is going to use this valve in the same way. Correct.
Elizabeth Versace: I dare them.
Filip Valica: Right, right. Yeah, absolutely. It's a very big process and what you said is exactly right.
Filip Valica: How did you arrange that with them where you were able to use their intellectual property? Do you have to give them a licensing fee for every bottle that you sell?
Elizabeth Versace: No, I pay for each individual unit of the valve that I order. So that basically, it's their intellectual property. It's their product. Basically, I pay very good money for each unit. You're incorporating their product into your end.
Elizabeth Versace: And I guess the upside of that is that the bottle is not a patented product because we have a design registration, but the actual valve itself, it's a product of another company. Sure.
Elizabeth Versace: A huge company in America, it's one of those things that it's good and bad, but at the same time, I'm very happy to pay them good money to use their very, very good product. It's excellent.
Elizabeth Versace: To give listeners a picture of what the cap is, think about a cap that you might. might have on an ordinary bottle, but instead of it being made from one or two pieces, this thing has just from the naked eye, it looks like it's got like five, six parts in it.
Elizabeth Versace: It's pretty complicated. There's even two separate materials for the cap and for the nozzle
Filip Valica: that contacts your teeth. Yeah, exactly. It probably looks really simple, but it's not. The screw part is one part, a polypropylene, number five plastic. And then that soft overbold on the
Filip Valica: mouthpiece is something that doesn't destroy kids' teeth, like my daughters. It's a really nice feeling when you're drinking out of it. It's soft, but it's not like a baby's teeth on a bottle.
Filip Valica: And then there's a one-way valve and there's also ultrasonically put in O-ring, which is a very hard substance that we needed to have for flow. And there's also the four crosshairs
Elizabeth Versace: that if the valve does come out, which it shouldn't, but if it does, we don't want any choking, of course.
Filip Valica: So there's a lot of thought process, a lot of design. And as I said, I think probably the best design products are the ones that you go, why will not think of that and it looks so simple? But it's not.
Filip Valica: That's what I like about it. It's a very clever product and we're very proud of it. I'd love products that look simple from the outside. But as a designer, I know that
Elizabeth Versace: that simplicity, that knack for editing your ideas down to come up with a design that has fewer parts with the right materials, that is where the rubber meets the road. That's where the challenge is
Elizabeth Versace: because you could really throw a lot of ideas onto a product and make it a Frankenstein. Exactly. But to have that control to edit yourself down, that's really where it's at. So
Elizabeth Versace: congratulations on creating such a, and I use the term simple product affectionately here.
Filip Valica: That's a compliment. Thank you, Philip.
Filip Valica: For coming up with something that's definitely unlike anything else on the market,
Elizabeth Versace: I would have been gun-shy to be in development for 18 months for two years on a new type of thermos bottle. I think that's definitely where your perseverance and your gut comes in that says,
Elizabeth Versace: hey, you know what, I think there's a market. And I truly believe in what we're doing here. I think there's people listening that would have probably given up before you.
Elizabeth Versace: And I don't blame them. I think sometimes it's just stubbornness. But above all, I think that belief that it's
Elizabeth Versace: possible and this can be done and it will be very, very good and make a difference. I think that's what got me through it. And in the meantime, I was still selling cups,
Elizabeth Versace: which was a positive thing. And I really thought that it would take six months, but boy, it didn't.
Elizabeth Versace: Perseverance is probably the thing. While you were selling these cups, was that enough to kind of keep the doors open, so to speak, or were you still shedding a lot of money for the design of the bottle?
Elizabeth Versace: The cups had definitely helped, but there had to be a little bit more investment into the development of the Ecococoon cap. So it was very stressful. Like obviously, you're thinking, my God, all these ideas and is it worth it? And what am I doing?
Elizabeth Versace: And it was definitely something that I would always think about. But I kind of knew as soon as the one-way valve had been approved from the, the medical company in the US. I just thought, this is it. We've done it. And it was just a process
Filip Valica: of then completing the design and organizing the tooling. And also just having that connection with the industrial designer, he knew of plastic injection molding factories in China. He has a lot
Filip Valica: of products themselves that he invents and also does for customers. And fortunately, just by having Gott's knowledge and connections that we secured an excellent plastic injection mold
Elizabeth Versace: company in China and I guess my relationship with the owner of that company is quite strong and I think that makes a difference is that you need to have the trust in that company to do a really good job and
Elizabeth Versace: they certainly do and they are not the cheapest but you don't want the cheapest you want to have that quality and that reassurance that every unit is spot on every unit's got a completed
Elizabeth Versace: one-way valve inserted correctly that's something that I know that is very important and is that thing that once the one-way valve was approved, we went, that's
Elizabeth Versace: it. We've got it. It's all done. So while you're working with this manufacturer that you said
Filip Valica: you established trust with, did you still have something in the back of your head telling you
Elizabeth Versace: if you can trust this manufacturer with this intellectual property that's not yours or with this design that you so laborously just created? Were you worried at all about them running with it
Elizabeth Versace: and creating their own white-labeled or a privately labeled brand? No, it wasn't purely because the factory I use, they really do produce all different types. Like a bottle mouthpiece for them
Filip Valica: is just one of the very many things that they do. They do like parts for automobiles and everything like that. We're a customer. There is a full trust with them. And of course,
Filip Valica: China being China in terms of design that there's a lot of things that they can copy. I know for
Elizabeth Versace: a fact that I was quoted from a particular company, a copy of the valve. And I went, no, you've got to be kidding. That's not even possible. So everything can be copied, but the aftermath of the medical
Elizabeth Versace: company in the US would not be worth it at all. Yeah, absolutely. They would come back on you if you ever tried to enter the US market with infringing products. Exactly. And it's just not worth
Elizabeth Versace: it. And I mean, it's all about honoring what they've developed and there's a lot in it. And it's like everything that you need to honor other people's designs and go, yep, no, that's good. And I'll pay good
Elizabeth Versace: money to use it. There was no problem with that, no copies required, and definitely my plastic
Filip Valica: injection company would not infringe on our design at all. Other than having this amazing trusting gut that you can rely on, were you ever hesitant? Did you ever think that maybe you're
Filip Valica: not going in the right direction? Like what was maybe one of the bigger struggles that you had going through this process where you thought, I don't know if this is going to work? Well, the biggest
Elizabeth Versace: struggle and it was such a shame where the design had been done, everything had been approved and I was of short, like cash flow, I just went, my God, I have not got enough cash to get
Elizabeth Versace: through to manufacture and it was devastating and of course obviously with that it's all to do with sales and it was very disappointing but I guess it was just I've got to get this moving
Elizabeth Versace: and it was just another hurdle where it took another three months to get the money together to go ahead with the manufacture of the mouthpieces and bottles, and we did it. But as I said, it's just another speed bump along the road.
Elizabeth Versace: You get over it and just get on with it. Fortunately, now that you've walked through the fire, so to speak, it almost makes it so much easier to market a product that you know is basically the best product
Filip Valica: that you can build, that you can 100% put yourself behind to say, I know that there's nobody else that can duplicate what we're doing here.
Elizabeth Versace: And I know that this is the best product out there for this application. You're right. That's the thing that I know it's an excellent product. And I think, too, that it's testament that when customers do purchase the bottles,
Elizabeth Versace: they don't look back. They love them. And they tell their friends and they tell, they goes around the gym and the office and everything like that.
Elizabeth Versace: And that's the strength of the bottle where it's a very positive feedback from customers. that's what you really want.
Elizabeth Versace: And we're still a small to medium enterprise. We have not even scraped the surface of sales around the world, but we know that we always have our repeat customers.
Elizabeth Versace: We always have people referring people to the company. And that's how we keep going. And that's a really important thing for any business, whether it's service or product orientated. Would you say that referrals
Elizabeth Versace: are the lion's share of your marketing or your repeat business? Or what would you you say is really effective for your line? Repeat is probably the most powerful. Referral definitely
Elizabeth Versace: is powerful too. And I think once people sort of get to know that this is how it works and you know you won't have cold water all day and leaving in your 40 degree car, I know our
Elizabeth Versace: degrees is different. I know you guys are in Fahrenheit. We're in Celsius but 40 degree Celsius is very hot.
Filip Valica: You know, you come back to your car and you've got beautiful cold water. It's all about the form, the function, the design, the performance, and that's what I really, that's what really makes
Elizabeth Versace: me keep going, basically. So, and I think that the, the products that we produce, we try and
Filip Valica: we try and have a point of difference. We have other products that we have, which are essentially off-the-shelf products, but not many people do have them. And if they don't have them, they
Filip Valica: haven't marked them that well. We always like to have something that it's a dual purpose, like our straws. You've got a stainless steel straw. Everything we have is stainless steel drinkwear.
Elizabeth Versace: So you have a stainless steel straw. You have a spoon on the end and then you have a color band to distinguish that, right, you've got the red straw, you've got the green straw. Everything has a
Elizabeth Versace: purpose and everything is based on that whole idea of being a bit different, being a bit quirky and making the person go, I'm really glad I bought these because I used them and they work really well.
Elizabeth Versace: I could see how something like this would last a while or you would get some use out of it and you'd think, oh, maybe I need to give them as a gift to somebody else because there's something that they can keep and it's going to bring them a lot of value, a lot of joy.
Elizabeth Versace: Exactly. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of really great ideas out there. And I guess it's just a matter of reinventing and making them better and doing the very best you can to produce a really good product. Yeah. So while you said that,
Filip Valica: Imagine you're talking to your younger self or you're speaking to somebody that's creating their own product and they're in their early stages and they're just kind of stumbling along because they just keep hitting some of these smaller roadblocks. What would you advise them?
Elizabeth Versace: What would you tell them to kind of keep going? Do you have any tips or motivational tidbits to share? First of all, believe it or not, you do have to have a little bit of naivity at the beginning and that's kind of important because if you knew what you were going to go through, you probably wouldn't do it.
Elizabeth Versace: but I honestly believe that you do have to trust your instinct. You've got to have a path where you go, right, I want to get here at this stage, I want this at this stage. And that, of course, sometimes doesn't happen.
Elizabeth Versace: But above all, if you really believe in your product and your design, you'll get through the challenges and it's totally worth it. So I think that designing a product that's different is definitely worth a go.
Elizabeth Versace: If we didn't have people out there doing it, we'd have nothing new, nothing interesting. and it would be very boring. We need more inventors and designers, and I think it's really important. And in bubble, I think it's very rewarding and fun. No, absolutely.
Elizabeth Versace: And congratulations again for being so successful with this product and for coming up with something so unique. If people wanted to go out there and buy a bottle or buy some of these stainless steel glasses, where would they go?
Elizabeth Versace: In the US, just to address the US, we have select products on USA Amazon. We've got our beautiful, retro soda cups, which are like a 50s designer, Happy Day sort of style, which is in conjunction
Elizabeth Versace: with our retro feel and also straw spoon packs. They're on Amazon. We're yet to actually have our
Filip Valica: bottles on Amazon from us at the moment, but we work every day to look at avenues of distributing in the US. If you're in Australia or around the world, we ship all over the world. And you can go
Filip Valica: to ecococoon.com.com.com.com.com.
Elizabeth Versace: And that's our website. And we have all our products on there
Filip Valica: that you can choose. And we have great promotions every so often. So what we would encourage people to do is to subscribe. So they're up to date with new products and special promotions.
Filip Valica: And we have quite a few retailers, particularly in Australia, of course. But we also have retailers overseas in Europe. And I'm not sure, I'll have to check with my staff if we've
Filip Valica: got an up-to-date thing on our website, but we have stockers in Greece, Belgium, Scandinavia, Germany, France, Austria, and I believe Seychelles. Yeah.
Filip Valica: Which is kind of crazy. Sounds very exotic, actually, but we're really proud of that. And it's just a matter of, if they have any questions, just send us an email through ecocacoon.com.com.com.com.com.com. And we can help them out. That's how it goes.
Filip Valica: Perfect. Libby, thanks again for coming on the show. Really appreciate you getting into that level of detail. I know we could probably talk for at least another hour about delivering the product and quality assurance and going through the marketing and sales part of it is definitely
Filip Valica: entertaining conversation. So thanks again for sharing your wisdom with us. Thank you, Philip. Thank you very much for you, Tom. I really appreciate it. It's been fun.
Filip Valica: And that's all I've got for today. Thank you for listening. What I thought was really interesting with this interview was that Lizzie didn't reinvent the wheel. She used existing products and designs that were
Filip Valica: already out there and focused on the value that she was bringing to her product. She was focusing on the solutions that she could solve and wasn't afraid of repurposing other people's products or intellectual property.
Filip Valica: The second part that I thought was really cool was her use of marketing, targeting people that were kids in a certain era, having an emotional connection to one type of product, and
Filip Valica: creating a second line that tapped into that motion, that used that feeling of nostalgia by creating this retro theme product. And the third takeaway from me was that she understood that design is iterative. We talk about it on the show a lot,
Filip Valica: but you will have to take a step back before you can take a step forward sometimes. It won't be right on the first try. Don't be afraid to go back and hone your product because it will make the marketing. It will make selling the product a whole lot easier
Filip Valica: when you know that you've created the best product that you can. If you've got any questions or comments, I've put all the links that we've covered under the show notes posted on the product startup.com slash episode 31.
Filip Valica: Join me next time as I speak with Jill Bong. She's an entrepreneur, homesteader, and inventor of chicken armor, a different chicken saddle. She's also the author of a dozen books on homesteading and self-reliant living.
Filip Valica: And we're really going to get into how anyone can create a product with minimal resources. So tune in next week to hear that episode. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Product Startup Podcast with your host, Philip Veletsa.
Filip Valica: For more great content and to stay up today, visit theproduct startup.com.
Filip Valica: Your guide to getting there.
Filip Valica: Thanks for tuning into this episode of the Product Startup Podcast, the show that teaches you what it really takes to bring your product to market and turn it into a big success. This podcast series is brought to you by Mako Design and Invent,
Filip Valica: the first firm in North America to provide global caliber end-to-end physical, consumer product development to startups, inventors, and small product businesses.
Filip Valica: If you're looking for product development help on your invention, head over to macawdesign.com. That's m-a-k-o-design.com for a free consultation from one of Maca-Design's four design studios from coast to coast. Thanks for listening and see you next time.
Expert Help With Product Differentiation Strategy
Find the Improvement Customers Will Actually Value
A better version of an existing product needs a clear advantage, defensible positioning, user proof, and a feasible development path. Get help deciding which improvements matter and how to communicate them.
Work directly with Kevin Mako, the leading expert in hardware startup consulting, to clarify your product advantage, validation plan, and market position. Product Startup provides high-level consulting, coaching, practical industry perspective, and connections across the product development and commercialization journey.
Discuss Product Differentiation Strategy
Turn a familiar category into a more compelling and credible opportunity.