Listen Now
Guest: David M. Frankel, inventor of The Perky Collar.
Host: Kevin Mako, founder of Product Startup and the leading expert in hardware startup consulting. A hardware entrepreneur since 1999, Kevin has advised more than 1,500 founders and built and scaled MAKO Invent through its acquisition by TriMech in 2024.
Using Testing to Resolve Product Tradeoffs
David M. Frankel explains how he identified the problem behind The Perky Collar, tested early versions himself, and worked through key design tradeoffs. He also discusses overseas manufacturing and how he evaluated patent lawyers before choosing professional support.
Episode transcript
This transcript is provided for accessibility and reference. Download the SRT transcript.
Read the full episode transcript
Filip Valica: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the product startup podcast, a podcast that helps bring your product idea to life by chatting with successful inventors, product designers, and other industry professionals. This podcast is run by
Filip Valica: Mako Design + Invent and hosted by Filip Valica. Our goal here is to get to the bottom of what makes a product successful, from initial idea to putting your product on the shelf. We're taking you step by step to build a functional product and scale your product business. Now onto the show.
Filip Valica: This is the product startup podcast with Filip Valica, episode two.
Filip Valica: Welcome to the Product Startup Podcast, helping you turn ideas into successful products step-by-step with your host,
Filip Valica: Filip Valica.
Filip Valica: Hi, everyone, and welcome to the product startup podcast. This is episode two. Today I'm joined by David Frankel, the inventor and founder of Perky, the clothing innovation company. David has 20 years experience in sales, marketing, and manufacturing, and he has spent the last
Filip Valica: two years launching a product called the Perky Collar, the Collar Support System for Dress Shirts. David sells the perky caller on perkycollar.com and through the Amazon Vendor Express program.
Filip Valica: On the show, David talks about his experience with getting a patent, prototyping, and going to manufacture. We'll also get the details on how he uses an outside sales team to get into retail stores.
Filip Valica: He has a great story about how he got out of his comfort zone that I think we can all use to help push us ahead. So let's get started.
Filip Valica: Hi, David. Welcome to the show. Good morning. Thank you for having me. Maybe you can tell everybody a little bit about yourself how you got started. and something about the perky collar.
Filip Valica: Well, it started in April of 2014 when I was getting ready for an important meeting. I put on a white dress shirt and a blazer, and I looked in the mirror
Filip Valica: and the left side collar of that dress shirt just looked very droopy and saggy and bombline, very sad. So I decided that I kept tugging on it and tugging on it and tried to figure out what I could do to fix it.
Filip Valica: I took the shirt off, went in the closet, another one, and the same thing happened. And I said, what the heck is wrong with my shirts? Why are they all looking so sad? And I just had to find a solution.
Filip Valica: So I decided at that moment to go into my daughter, who was at that time five years old's bedroom, and just kind of started looking around. I guess that's the entrepreneur side of me or the creative side of me that's looking for a solution.
Filip Valica: And suddenly I found some of her headbands, some were plastic, some were fabric. and I started looking through all the different headbands that she had until I found two or three that looked like they were reasonable size
Filip Valica: and I stuck them under my collar of my shirt to see how they would look and oddly enough it actually worked and throughout the day I kept her headband in my collar I looked great for the meeting and I was incredibly uncomfortable
Filip Valica: but I knew I was on to something I knew I found something that really solved a problem for me the next question became is this the The golden nugget I've been looking for all these years as an entrepreneur, and do other people have the same problem?
Filip Valica: I'm only a person with a six-month-old to one-year-shirt. Everybody else is a brand-new shirt. Maybe I'm the only person with a problem.
Filip Valica: And then I reached out to a company here in Charlotte called Inventus and said, I have a great idea I'd like to share with you. And in the meantime, I went to a couple dollar stores and picked up 10, 20 different little plastic headbands and variety of thicknesses and lengths and fabrics and styles.
Filip Valica: And we sat down and had a conversation about how I thought this headband style or this idea of a headband could help other dress shirts out there become perkier or a more, you know, a higher collar or a more professional-looking color.
David M. Frankel: And that's where the whole process began. Wow, that's pretty cool. You got this awesome idea. What did you do after that to see if other people had the same problem?
Filip Valica: Or were you just instinctively, did you think, you know what, I'm a guy and I have this problem and I bet everybody else does too? You know, at the moment, I started looking around at people in my office. I started looking at people I saw in the street.
Filip Valica: I started watching television, whether it would be news, whether it would be movies, whether it be sportscasts. And I saw other people on the same problem that weren't wearing ties. And it started coming to me that, you know what, maybe this is a really big problem, especially now that we've gone to more of a business casual environment.
Filip Valica: And then when I talked to Inventus and sat down with them for a half hour, 45 minutes with engineers and their marketing people and their website designers, they were very excited. They said, I think you've really stumbled on something that can be huge.
Filip Valica: And at that moment, that's what I realized, well, okay, let's see how huge is going to be. So they did their first amount of research they did was on, okay, who could really use open-collar devices like this?
Filip Valica: And that's when they gave me a presentation that was, you know, 25 slides on the PowerPoint. And we talked about the military. We talked about hospitality. And we talked about, you know, business professionals. And the question became then, how big is it? Is it just for men? Is it for men and women?
Filip Valica: And who could really use this device? Because if it's not a big enough audience, it's a waste of time and money and energy. Absolutely. So after listening to that presentation, I really felt there was enough people to go after in the high-collar market that we should really continue to pursue this.
Filip Valica: And I kept telling them, please tell me at any point, if you feel like this is garbage and this is a waste of time and money, please stop me because I don't want to get my hopes up. And they said, no, I really feel that the average business professional cares about how they look
David M. Frankel: and there's enough people wearing open collar and not suits and ties anymore that you really have something special here. So let's take it to stage two and we just took one stage at a time. I'm glad to hear that you ask people for that advice because a lot of times we're slaves to what we create
David M. Frankel: or it's our baby and we don't want anyone to criticize it. But it's really important to get that feedback. Sometimes the people that are closest to you
Filip Valica: maybe feel like they need to support you more than give you the truth. So it's really good that you went out to some third party that they were able to do that market research for you and help you out with that. Yeah, it's very important, because you're exactly correct. Our friends and family are exactly that friends and family.
Filip Valica: They'll tell you what you want to hear more times and not. So it was nice to go to my office and say, hey, what do you think of this? And I'm like, wow, that's pretty interesting. That's pretty cool. Let me try it on. Or that's a pretty interesting idea. Well, that's really special. And it was nice to hear people that, you know, are coworkers that don't have any skin
Filip Valica: the game, don't care about my feelings, which is great. They could give me an honest truth.
David M. Frankel: And it was inspiring to take it from one stage, the next stage. But again, I kept saying, even after stage two was done in stage three, please stop me at any time if you think this is not going to work. Right. Don't let me keep pouring money into something or time into something if it's not going to have legs.
David M. Frankel: Well, I think that's huge, validating customer needs and their wants face-to-face, especially now.
Filip Valica: I think people focused on the internet a lot to do that for them. And I bet you got a really good feedback from people just by having conversations with them. Before you did all that, did you consider a patent? Yes.
Filip Valica: The patent happened November of 2014 is when I sat down with several 12 patent attorneys, to be exact, because I figured that if I'm going to start a business and be a clothing innovation company,
Filip Valica: I need to find the right patent attorney. And most of the patent attorney thought like crazy because I interviewed so many. I think you just pick one out of the phone book, any, many, money, mo. You pick one, and that's it, and you spend your $3,000 to $5,000 depending on the complexity of the product.
Filip Valica: But I felt like it was more of a relationship. I was going to be working with this guy for a long, long time, and I had to feel right. And being in sales and marketing and manufacturing for 20 years, I'm all about quality relationships, and I was very picky.
Filip Valica: And it really wasn't about price. It was more about who did I feel most comfortable with? Who did I feel as being the most direct, most honest? Who did I feel had the attention to detail I was looking for? And who did I feel like I wanted to work with for a long period of time? I picked one gentleman out.
Filip Valica: It has been a great addition to this organization and very attention to detail. details come through on deadlines as required and available. It doesn't charge me every time I pick up the phone names, you know, call him. He's more about the money. He's more about making
Filip Valica: sure I have a great patent application. We did a provisional first.
Filip Valica: I was, I talked to several different patent attorneys as to which direction I should go.
Filip Valica: And their advice was, hey, you know, people come out with products and then within a year make a major change. And then they're stuck with an expensive bill for non-provisional that, you know, at the start another one and spend another $3,000 to $5,000.
Filip Valica: It's like start on provisional. It's less expensive. At least you get your ideas on paper. It's not reviewed by USPTO, United States Patent Trademark Office. But at least it's, you know, you can start talking about you. Now officially patent pending, even as a provisional,
Filip Valica: I can start marketing, which is probably the hardest thing for me as a marketer, is not to tell anybody about what I'm working on. Right. Even my wife and my kids. They're like, what are you working on, Dad? You're like, that's top secret. And that's, I think, the hardest part of not telling anybody until you have that patent pending, you know, that application
David M. Frankel: filed. I got the certification from the office. Yes, you can start telling people. And that was January 16th of 2015. It was when I could officially start talking about it, start my Facebook pages
Filip Valica: and the social media pages and get the word out there. I think that's a great story. Maybe can you talk about how long it took to get to that point up until now? We're recording this episode at the end of January 2016. How long has it taken to you get to this point? Well, I think once I was patent
Filip Valica: pending January of 2015.
Filip Valica: At that point, I had some prototypes. I could officially start showing people, have them tested, get their feedback. And we got some great feedback from my coworkers. Originally it was gray. Originally, my logo was laser cut into the collar. Because I wanted to make sure
Filip Valica: that if someone did rip me off, that I had something special about my collar, some design aspect. I did apply for a utility patent, not a design patent, because again, with a design patent, you can make a slight little change, and suddenly your design patent is worthless. Right. So I knew
Filip Valica: I wasn't going to go for that, but I wanted something unique about my collar that said it was a perky collar, not just an ordinary collar or some cheap knockoff,
Filip Valica: because the thickness was important to me. The tapered ends was important to me. So it got as close to the button hole as the button as possible to maximize a lift of the
Filip Valica: top button region. So again, it was really important to me over the next, I'd say six months to get out there and get people's opinions, talk to people, not be afraid to talk to strangers. hey, what do you think about this?
Filip Valica: Give me your honest feedback. Because, again, if you ask just friends and family, they can say, oh, I think it's great. No changes. Like, that's not what I want to hear. Be brutal. It's okay. I can handle it. And then as I got feedback, we made changes. We changed the material.
Filip Valica: We decided to go to a clear instead of a great plastic. But again, it all came from great feedback from people. And I talked to probably hundreds of hundreds of people in that three, four, five-month process to make sure I had the right look, the right feel, the right thickness.
Filip Valica: because overall your neck is pretty sensitive. So if you have something that's too overly tight like the headband from my daughter's room, then suddenly it's uncomfortable and you'd rather just wear a tie. So it's important for me to make sure it's comfortable, but at the same time, you know, if you can look good,
Filip Valica: it's not always comfortable. You know, men don't necessarily wear suits because they feel comfortable, it's because they look great. Same with dress shoes. They're pretty stiff and uncomfortable, but you look great. So I realized there may be a little discomfort, and that's just kind of going along with the territory, but most importantly, did it do its job.
Filip Valica: And some people say that it's too thick, so we thin it out a little bit, but I wanted it to work. So my concern was if I go too thin,
Filip Valica: even though it made me more comfortable, suddenly I have people on Facebook and social media blasted me because this thing doesn't work. It's like the free plastic you get when you buy your shirt.
Filip Valica: So I had to differentiate myself from that free plastic, the manufacturers, sandwich shirts, because they know collars need support when it goes to the manufacturer to the customer. But honestly, they could care less once the customer has the product.
Filip Valica: And you put in your closet, and it gets smashed, and you travel with it, it gets smashed. there's a lot of torture that colors go through. So I was really hoping to help people preserve their shirts a little longer and look their best for interviews, for day-to-day business meetings.
Filip Valica: And, you know, again, at that point,
Filip Valica: I guess it was July of 2015.
Filip Valica: We started working on packaging, which is probably a little late, but I was just so focused on getting feedback to make sure the product was right. I bought the mold, and we started production at order 5,000 colors. They were made in China. I did try and have them made in the United States initially,
Filip Valica: but the majority of feedback I got was, number one, it was more expensive. Number two, they didn't want to stop the production line for my tiny little 5,000 unit production. And I was disappointed because I was really excited about having a made-n-USA product, but it just didn't make sense financially,
Filip Valica: and I just couldn't get them to stop their production for my little order. So the people that inventors convinced me, hey, David, I know you want a maiden USA. I know it's in your heart, but let's go ahead and get the first 5,000 made. had the mold made in China. It was like $10,000 left to have the mold made there.
Filip Valica: And then worse comes worse, through the very amendment with the military. If you get a PO from the military for a 50,000 units, 10,000 units, or bring the mold back to USA. It can be a made-USA product, and you can get your witch.
David M. Frankel: But right now, this stage in the game, don't waste money on having the product made in the USA and be bankrupt, because you can't make an impact in the world if you're bankrupt. Wow. So do what makes sense, and that's how it made in China for now.
David M. Frankel: and then you have options later once you're profitable and you're a successful business. You touched on so many points there, and I don't want to get us too far off track, but I want to go just a step back when you were talking about design. You mentioned that you went through several iterations.
Filip Valica: I think it's really hard for people to know what advice to take from your customers. So you were talking about when it was too thin or versus too thick and some amount of discomfort is okay. That takes a lot of vision.
Filip Valica: Can you dive into that a little bit more? I would think, well, that you were on to something and maybe they just had to suck it up. Yeah, that's a great point, because anytime you come up with an idea,
Filip Valica: you're going to have some naysayers just because they don't like it. They don't think it's important. Oh, I have collar stays. Oh, I have working stiffs. You know, you're really not solving a problem that's out there. And all I can tell them was, yes, working stiff
David M. Frankel: does serve a purpose, but it's, I don't like the look. I don't like how the color kind of gets plastered to the neck of your shirt. shirt and it just doesn't it's not look I like and plus the magnets are so small my big
Filip Valica: fingers I just would lose the magnets and there's $30 down the drain or I worry about going off with the metal detectors of the airport when I'm traveling yeah I've definitely lost the magnets and they've kind of dropped down like into my waistband and right and then I'm like
Filip Valica: searching for yeah awkwardly like in the men's bathroom and people looking at you like a weirdo right what are you doing looking down your pants like oh looking for a magnet okay good luck to you yeah but also color stays you know people think color stays and
Filip Valica: the end-all. You know, collar stays were invented in the 1950s. So you're talking 60 years ago since we had innovation in the shirt that was really big. And you still want to wear collar stays in my product. Collar stays prevent a collar from curling. And that's where there's a lot
Filip Valica: of misconception. Oh, I wear collar stays. Oh, I wear metal collar stays. Why wear expensive collar stays? That's fine. Keep wearing your collar stays because it has no impact on my design and my product. Instead, it enhances my product because instead of having a curly collar
Filip Valica: and then an upright collar, you have a nice straight collar, as well as a collar that's lifted up. So again, the collar stays simply put,
Filip Valica: prevents a collar from curling.
Filip Valica: The perky collar lifts up the top button region, so you can have a button one or sometimes even two buttons, depending on the age of the shirt, so you can have that nice high collar a look. But as you, to go back to your question, you do have a lot of disappointment.
Filip Valica: I guess in being in sales for 20 years and management and marketing, you know, now everybody's going to get it. You're going to have your people that want to poo-poo your idea, no matter how great it is, just because they didn't think of it. And I actually had a conversation in November, I believe, was of 2015,
Filip Valica: a retail owner in California called me and said, I hate you. I was like, why do you hate me? She's like, because I didn't think of your product. I've been in the fashion industry for 25 years.
David M. Frankel: I deal with collar sagging and drooping all the time, and I never came up with the device to solve the problem.
Filip Valica: So for that reason, I hate you. I'm like, okay, well, hopefully we can still work together. She's like, no, no, I love the. She's like, no, really, I love the product. I think it's brilliant. It's great. She felt as one of the best innovations she's seen in fashion a
Filip Valica: long, long time. And she's like, there is no innovation. There's very little innovation that comes out of men's clothing. That's a great testimonial. That's awesome to have somebody like that.
Filip Valica: And she was really excited. That's the call you get that keeps you going. Because you get 10 nose or 50 nose calling people and say, hey, have this great product. I want to send you to you, test it out. No, thank you. We're a shirt and tie people. No thank you. I'm not dressed unless I'm wearing a tie. No thank you. We're
Filip Valica: suit company. We don't believe in an open collar. See, you are kind of, I represent myself, I call myself the storm a lot of times. There's a great phrase I found out of Facebook that said, people are telling the warrior, be careful, be careful the storm. And the warrior responded
Filip Valica: back, I am the storm. And what that basically means is that you represent change. You're disrupting, complacency, and people just expect to do the same thing every day. I wear a shirt and tie. That's it. There's a couple different types of collars. I can get a higher collar that
Filip Valica: solves a problem, blah, blah, blah,
Filip Valica: and you're going to have a lot of naysayers. Just don't buy into open collar is a growing trend. But the more and more, now it's January to 2016, I talk to business owners and retail owners. They say 50% of their clients are open collar.
Filip Valica: And I say at that point, what are you doing to reach that market? What are you doing to help those people look their best? And most of them say, not a whole lot. They just have to buy a new shirt every three to six months. I was like, what about the guy that can't afford to buy a $150 a $2 shirt every three months? What about that guy?
Filip Valica: What about all the 50 shirts in your closet now? What do you do with those? You send them all to Goodwill? I mean, it was true in my situation. My wife was always trying to make room for new things.
David M. Frankel: And I just felt that great quality shirts, shirts I love, patterns I like, colors I like, shirts look good on me, shirts that got compliments on. I hated this to give them away to Goodwill. As much as Goodwill is a great organization, I felt this shirt still has some life left. And the primarily problem was the collar.
David M. Frankel: So I wanted to make sure I found a solution to help out those great shirts out there that didn't deserve to be in the graveyard yet. And I think that's huge.
Filip Valica: I think your approach to some of these retailers is really spot on, hitting the innovation and seeing where the market is going and trends.
Filip Valica: While you were talking, I actually reached up and started massaging my own collar because I was self-conscious because, you know, maybe now I need to get a perky collar. It sounds crazy, but that, you know, having these types of conversations makes people more aware of that.
Filip Valica: People didn't know they needed something until you had that talk with them. Exactly right. I find that definitely the case in stores that don't have an active. salesperson talking about the product. It's not a product that's going to sit on a shelf and sell itself because people know what it is.
Filip Valica: But the stores that have done really well with it have active salespeople out there saying, hey, have you seen this brand new product and just hit the market? And they're like, oh, what is it? It's a support system for your collar so it doesn't droop and sag. And they're like, most people say, really, that's interesting. Has it been on Shark Tank?
Filip Valica: Like, not yet. Maybe someday. But ultimately, it's, here, try it on. Once they try it on, and they see how it lifts the top button region, they're like, wow, that's really cool. And it's so light and it's so comfortable. I'll take one. I'll take two. I'll take three, four.
Filip Valica: It's all because they were introduced to the product. They're explained how the product works. They try it on, realize it didn't meet their initial concerns. Again, that complacency, oh, it's probably, it's plastic. It's probably not going to feel good. It's probably going to be uncomfortable. It's probably
Filip Valica: going to be stiff. All those worries go away when they try it on and realize that within a couple minutes, they only realize it's there. And that makes a big difference. So, Cina is believing when they look in the mirror and like, wow, look how great my shirt looks.
Filip Valica: With a jacket, not with a sweater, not with a blazer, before it was tucking under, and I was constantly tugging on my shirt all day long. I don't have to do that anymore. And people call me and tell me, you know what, I can't even wear a dress shirt now without a
Filip Valica: perky collar because I've now, it's like putting my watch on every single day. I just need to know my collar looks great without me having to look in the mirror all the time to check it. And again, we have meetings in morning and afternoon, and we want to look great all day long,
David M. Frankel: and I have found that because the quality and the durability and the craftmanship, and my attention to detail, and my lack of…
Filip Valica: desire to have anything but a supreme product that it holds up throughout the day. And a lot times you forget you're even wearing it. So people tell me how they get on dress at night and they get to take it off and they forget they're wearing it. It just springs off. I say, well, at least you don't have to worry about washing it in the washing machine because it probably wouldn't do
Filip Valica: so well in the washing machine. Right. Unlike a collar stay that's kind of stuck in the shirt, you make that mistake. Before you did that, did you look at getting some sort of funding for that or did you use your own savings? Well, that's a great question.
Filip Valica: Everything I've done so far is with my own personal funding. It's one of those, look at the market, is the market making money for me. And every time I looked at it, the answer was no, unless it was 2014, and 15 just
Filip Valica: wasn't moving. And, you know, I came from a family where, you know, your money has worked for you. And I just wasn't seeing it working for me. So I said, what better way to make my money work harder than to invest to myself? I know what my return's going to be. I don't know what
Filip Valica: the return's going to be in the market. And even just, even now in 2016, you know, the money is not moving. So I feel like I made the right choice back in 2015 to invest to myself and to self-fund it. I've actually had several people, especially over the Christmas holiday, say, I love the
Filip Valica: perky color idea. Can I buy equity in your company? I was like, well, right now, I don't want any partners because I want to have 100% ownership of my business. And that's one of the things I've looked for is the pitfalls of other companies is they get partners too soon and they give
Filip Valica: equity too soon. So that was always in the back my mind. I appreciate the compliment, but I want to I want to fund this 100% myself. Now, again, I can't tell you, kind of like Damon John's book, The Power of Broke,
Filip Valica: at times you do feel like, okay, at what point is this revenue going to justify all my time and money and expense and risk? But I feel like I got everything in order now.
Filip Valica: I'm going to Magic in February of this year next month to be in front of tons of men's clothing store owners, and it will pretty much be my coming out party. It'll be the time for me to get in front of hundreds of hundreds of retail owners.
Filip Valica: and get this product nationwide. I'm in six states now, plus Jay Hilburn.
David M. Frankel: It has another six to seven states. They have, their reps are selling product for me. But I feel like I've done it at a nice, slow, steady pace.
Filip Valica: I couldn't handle someone that said I want $10,000, $20,000 right this second. I would need 60, 90 days to have more collars made. So I feel like I've had a chance to go slowly, but at a pace that is manageable, not overly stressful,
Filip Valica: and not taking so much money that I'm now bankrupt and now selling my house and the stretch really kicks in. Right. You've basically had an incremental, predictable growth, so you can kind of go back and project where you think that you're going to be
Filip Valica: and kind of make the necessarily changes to get there. Correct. And with Inventus, the process of prototyping and 3D sketches and the 3D printing,
David M. Frankel: everything is laid out in stages where I own everything related to the product is also very important to me. Don't fall for invent help. There's other companies where they own the IP, they own the rights to the art. Make sure you own everything because you're going to need that.
David M. Frankel: down the road. If you want investors, they want to know that you own everything. They don't want to
Filip Valica: know that you're only 10% or 20% ownership of different components of your business. So that 100% ownership is very important. It's tempting to let them do things for you. Maybe it's cheaper, but it's ultimately more expensive for you in the long run when you got to buy it back from
Filip Valica: them when you have a great product. I'm really glad you mentioned that. I think there's definitely a lot of invention help companies out there. They don't give the IP back to the inventor or that have all sorts of restrictive requirements on licensing. And it's hard to wait through that. We talked
Filip Valica: about funding for a little bit. Can you talk about what you had to put up front and then how you picked Inventus? Sure. I think overall for 2015, I haven't know my taxes in it for 2015, so I don't know the exact number in my head. But I would say it's probably between $40,000
Filip Valica: overall from start to finish. That's the mold. That's the 5,000 units.
Filip Valica: That's the trade show I just paid for in Las Vegas. That's a lot of the prototyping. That's the sketching, the sketchwork that had to go to China to make sure everything was done exactly right, and there's still more
Filip Valica: to come. But majority of the expense is over, which is good. And again, I had such a simple device. I felt I could handle the investment, where if you have moving parts and a lot of electricity and a lot of components, then obviously the price tag to get a product to launch is much, much higher,
Filip Valica: and therefore you need to do different Kickstarter programs and different things to help generate some revenue. I do think that if you have something 100% invested, someone else paying for your product 100% of the way, you don't have as much skin in the game. And I listened to a one-hour
Filip Valica: broadcast by Damon John last night about the power of broke. And I can relate to a lot of what he was saying because part of what motivates me is it is my money. It is my investments. It's money that my family set aside for me, you know, 20, 30, 40 years ago. And I'm spending
Filip Valica: that money that I could just sit in the bank and watch the, you know, the pennies go here and there from year to year. But I chose to take a different path, which is invest in myself. And I'm sure scared the heck of my family. But at the same time, you know, I'm the same time. This could be much, much bigger than we'll sit in that account.
Filip Valica: And when I'm working with the Mentis, since it gave me those scales of, okay, here's stage one, stage two, stage three. This is what it costs. I could set aside the money so I can mentally understand and budget for those upcoming expenses. And nothing took me by surprise.
Filip Valica: Everything was on stage. Packaging was probably one of my other big, big challenges. I didn't realize how much packaging was going to cost me. So I tried doing a lot of it myself. We got a lot of feedback on Facebook. I was part of a group called Shark Tank Entrepreneurs. They gave me a lot of great feedback.
Filip Valica: So I'm very direct. Someone wasn't really prepared for. That was a fool. And I wasn't listening. And you're crazy. And purple's awful. And I said, purple's an accent color. Like, no, it's too much purple. You know, so it was good to have that feedback.
Filip Valica: And I'm proud that based on that feedback I got from people, based on the Shark Tank Entrepreneur groups, take on getting a box versus getting a hang tag or a piece of, you know, plastic. talking about plastic device,
Filip Valica: how do you get to present it to the market? Are people going to know where it is? It came from a headband. So if you try and sell like a headband, it's going to automatically be conceived as a cheap product. And it wasn't a cheap product. It works
Filip Valica: really well, but if you don't have a certain price tag, then people just dismiss it as being cheap plastic. So that was the hard part for me is, you know, who does this product for? And how do you convey that in a package? So I looked at tons and tons of different packaging concepts,
Filip Valica: which again, every time the longer you take, the more samples you look at, it costs you money, fortunately, but I felt this was a very important decision. And how do I get the whole thing to come together?
David M. Frankel: And I had a really nice package to take to retailers to now sell. But I really wasn't 100% convinced that that was the package I wanted to be my product. So we kept looking and I kept looking, and we still wrote another package that I thought was this beautiful,
Filip Valica: it was leather box, had a magnetic lid, had the little purple tab, which kind of had a little artistic flair to it. And the majority was black and white because I felt it was very elegant,
Filip Valica: but it had some purple highlights just to kind of grab your attention. But again, that packaging was hard because you want to attract men and women, because it is for both men's dress shirts shirts as well as women's blouses. Well, and women might be buying that for their husband as well, I imagine.
Filip Valica: So there's probably some marketing thought in there that you had that you wanted to make this a high-end luxury-feel product and that appeal to both genders. Exactly right. And that's where Inventus really came in. And we had a 30-minute PowerPoint presentation again on, you know, what's the logo you like? What's the colors you like?
Filip Valica: You know, purple, you know, despite the feedback I got on Facebook was its girly color,
Filip Valica: it's also color of royalty. And that's what I was going after. I went on a high-end, like you mentioned, a high-end quality product. Yes, it's plastic. But it's not about the plastic device, honestly. It's about how you feel. It's about the confidence that you exude because of the collar. It's because of looking professional.
Filip Valica: It's the attention you get when you walk in a room and you have a nice high-collar professional look and a blazer. people are going to look at you. People are going to have a different impression of you. When you walk into an interview and how great you look, it makes the difference in the
Filip Valica: world. So now the question is, how do I present how that feels in a box? And how do I illustrate this product? Because it's new. And again, people aren't going to walk up to it and say, oh, perky collar. I need to have one of these. Or my husband told me to buy one of these for him. They're looking at a black box for the
David M. Frankel: window and saying, what is a perky collar? I already have collar states. I mean, that's typically the impression. But hopefully they flip it over and they read the illustrations, which Inventus created for me. They read. you know, kind of what the product does, a brief two sentence because people aren't going to
David M. Frankel: read a lot of information. I'll learn a lot about, you know, less is more. Keep it simple. Use illustrations. People are not going to read a paragraph long about your product. As much as
Filip Valica: you think it's great, people just aren't going to read all the intricate details about your product. So keep it simple, stupid. And make sure the product packaging is elegant, but also conveys what it is and how it works. And make sure it's the colors that are friendly to both
Filip Valica: male and female. I'm glad that you talked about a lot of that stuff, because I think it's hard to get into the mindset of who's the user and who's the purchaser and who's the decision maker around buying a product. And sometimes they're not all the same person. How do
Filip Valica: you get into all those people's heads individually? I guess you had a lot of help from Inventus, but you probably also interviewed some people directly just on packaging, I imagine. Exactly right. Yeah.
Filip Valica: Co-workers I talk to, neighbors I talk to and I showed them stages and like, oh, that's nice. Like you can tell they weren't overly excited. So I knew it wasn't on. I hadn't hit a home run yet.
Filip Valica: But when I finally got to my latest packaging, and I got the prototypes from China, it didn't fit initially. So they had to go back to the drawing board and make some more changes. And I started showing it to the same people that have been with me the whole process in my office. And they said, this is beautiful.
Filip Valica: This is a home run. You've really, you've found the right package now. And now the question becomes, okay, who else wants to offer my product in their stores? So, you know, that's the other issue. Is it not this is great for direct-to-consumer, but is it the elegance?
Filip Valica: is it the look that retailers want to have in displaying your product in their stores. And then it also determines, you know, as far as which type of stores want to carry their products. So I started out with dry cleaners with the cheaper box because I just didn't, I think it generates the price tag I was really ultimately hoping for,
Filip Valica: which is now 1995. Then it was 1495 with the simpler box. You couldn't really store it in there. But it was in a dry cleaner, so it needed to be a little cheaper product. And dry cleaners embraced it greatly. My only challenge was communication because many dry cleaner owners I had a hard time communicating with,
Filip Valica: But the ones that I could communicate with love the idea because they knew which customers complained a lot about their collars. And they knew it would sell well. And then once I went to the nicer box, that's when the men's clothing stores really fell in love with the new box because it had the higher level of elegance. They wanted to portray in their store.
Filip Valica: So I kind of have the lower end box and the dry cleaners and the higher end box in the men's clothing stores. And then we ran into, you know, grooming lounges and barbershops and, you know, people want to look their best. And there's a lot of barbershops out there now. They're charging $30, $40, $50 for a shave and a haircut. Could they afford a $20 perky collar?
Filip Valica: that they can use over and over again and all their dress shirts? Of course they can. So now, again, where do I find room on their shelves with the other products for their hair and, you know, a moisturizer for their aftershave? And I haven't really found a place that couldn't be sold.
Filip Valica: I'm even in rural Norman, a cosmetic store for women, just because they felt that a lot of women that are buying stuff for themselves are still looking for things for the husband, and it would be a great fit. And they've done really well.
Filip Valica: And again, I'm working on uniform companies because I feel like anyone that wears open-collar dress shirts for work should have a perky collar to have consistency. That's especially applicable to hospitality, to airlines, as well as the pilots or flight attendants. You just had to start brainstorming.
Filip Valica: Who else could use an open collar support system? Is it really going to be a big product in the United States or is really going to be an international product? In Nigeria, they do, you know, after work, they put on their Sunday best, no matter how poor they are, they put on their Sunday best and they dance and stroll through the neighborhoods.
Filip Valica: There's videos on YouTube where you can watch this. So maybe Nigeria is a place for the perky collar. You know, I went to fashion shows, and England is really big on high-collar professional look. Italy, obviously. You know, so the sky's a limit. It's just a matter of how do you stay focused?
Filip Valica: Where do you start your energy first, and how do you kind of let it naturally organically grow? And it's been interesting to see who my followers are and where they come from on Facebook. I've been ordered from Australia. You know, who would have thought that through social media, someone Australia to buy my perky collar.
Filip Valica: But it's cool to know that it's in Australia now. It's in Canada now. It's in probably out of the 50 states. say a good 25 to 30 different states in the country. But I think it all is about trying to find the target market, find the retail stores because I want to have grassroots.
Filip Valica: One of the things I told the retail store is it's not about me getting in a big box stores, even though I've tried and talked to all of them. I'm too early for that. But I want to make sure it's grassroots. I told them when you decide to buy a perky collar, whether it's 10, 20, 30, 50 doesn't matter to me.
Filip Valica: The first thing I do is I'm going to take your name, address, phone number, pictures of your store inside and out. I'm going to put on my Facebook page and welcome me to the perky collar family.
David M. Frankel: And I'm going to drive traffic into your store as a way of saying thank you.
Filip Valica: I'm not going to like your page on Facebook to show that I care and I appreciate you taking the time to support me and my venture to cover the country with a new product. Because I feel like it's important to help these small businesses. You know, all the orders are going online.
Filip Valica: Obviously, I have my own e-commerce website, but it's not going to be the end-all be-all. My margins are best online, but I'm not going to touch people as many people as I want just with my online website. So I really need them to help me. So I need to help them too.
Filip Valica: And then also, as additional products come out, because we are at clothing innovation company, I have that relationship already built. So that second product can go in much, much easier because that relationship's already there. Right. You already have that established network. Exactly right. So it's not easy.
Filip Valica: I mean, the grind of calling retailers on a daily basis, send them emails, phone calls, find out who to talk to, send them samples. And you get about 10, 20% that say, yes, it sounds cool. Send me a sample.
Filip Valica: And of that, another 50% will take on the product. But it's grueling. And you hear a lot of people say, no, thank you. It's not for us. No, thank you, not for us. And it does take a special person to keep fighting through. And then you get that call from
Filip Valica: California that says, I think it's brilliant. That gives you the energy for the next couple of days to keep calling. But you just need one person to love it, like it, think it's a great idea. Every couple of days is to kind of keep you going. Because no one likes to be on the phone
David M. Frankel: eight hours a day and making phone calls. I'm much better face-to-face presenting, demonstrating how the product works, which is why I'm looking forward so much to the trade show. Or I can demonstrate my product. I can use my passion, my love for the product, and my passion for looking
Filip Valica: looking good and help other people look good face to face. They can visually see that color lift up, which is something I can't do online. And even though I'm on Amazon, and even though it's going well on Amazon, it would be so much better if I could, you know, I have a video on
Filip Valica: Amazon, it's so much better when I can do a live demonstration and people see that color literally lifting in front of the very eyes. It's not magic. It's just the way the color works. That before and after is really, really powerful. And it's hard. convey that over the phone and be email. Right, right.
Filip Valica: I have so many questions for you. First of all, congrats on going international. I think that's huge. Are there any concerns with you've got a domestic patent in the U.S., now you're selling it in Australia? Are you hoping that being first to market is strong enough to kind of keep you there?
Filip Valica: That's a great question. And that's a question I asked, both Inventus as well as my patent attorney. And I had offers before I sold that one to Australia. I think it was Turkey or from, I think from Russia even. I love your product.
Filip Valica: let me know how much shipping it be. I'm like, I have no idea how much shipping to be. Let me go to the post office and find out. But they basically said, you know what, being first to market, it's first to market, people are going to copy you, just get used to it, just to make the best
Filip Valica: product possible. And, you know, the challenging part is you're right. My $3,000 for a U.S. patent covers me in U.S. so they can't import a product that competes with my patent. So that's
Filip Valica: hopeful, you know, that's a little bit refreshing, and it's helpful to know that that's in place. But what stops something in China to make my same product? What stops someone from putting out the back door? And that's why you have to trust relationships. And Ventus has a relationship with the manufacturer in China.
Filip Valica: And I was just hoping that
David M. Frankel: I haven't seen anything online. I haven't seen it on Alibaba. I haven't seen anything anywhere else. That's exactly my product. So, so far is so good. But it is a concern. I mean, you do have to worry about your baby, which it is. It's your baby being made by somebody else. That you put your time, effort,
David M. Frankel: money into, sacrifice your life savings for a product you hope and pray is not copying and you're wiped out the planet because they have deeper pockets than you do. So that's definitely a concern.
David M. Frankel: But according to Pat and attorney, it just, it is what is. And you can spend $1,000 to $3,000 in every country that you want protection. But how much money do want to spend on that? And, you know, maybe you look at where the most interest is and get the
Filip Valica: protection in that country. But don't go out and spend $100,000 on protecting in countries that really have no interest in your product. Absolutely. And I think you hit the nail on the head when you You said, you know, form these relationships first. You know, even in industry, we don't patent most of the products.
Filip Valica: Most of the products that you see on Amazon aren't patented, actually. And there's maybe some truth to that where you've protected the largest market for you,
David M. Frankel: which is the United States, and that's where you feel you have the most impact.
Filip Valica: And the rest of the stuff, you're hoping that your relationships with your customers and suppliers are going to, and retail stores are going to be there to carry you through. I want to highlight all the actions that you took to get into those stores because I think that's one stumbling buck that people have
Filip Valica: is, okay, I've manufactured this product, and until now maybe you were doing the assembly in your kitchen or dining room, is that? Well, the packaging assembly was definitely in my dining room. It gets up a little bit, but the same time, because it's a retail
Filip Valica: package, and they can have the right to refuse the package if it doesn't look perfect, I was probably a little selfish when it came to packaging. But at the same time, it's your image. You got to make sure the package looks great because it doesn't look good. They can't put on the shelves, and that's just a sunk cost for me. Right. No, absolutely.
Filip Valica: So then at that point, you started making the calls and basically being your own distributor. Correct. Well, I want to test the grounds. I wanted to see what was the feedback. And because, again, I did hire some sales reps across the country to help. Most of them haven't done a whole lot.
Filip Valica: I do have one manufacturer about Raleigh. He's done a great job. He already goes to trade shows. He's already in the industry. He already has a lot of contacts. He splasted the product out to several of them. He sold three or four different retail connections, which has been great.
Filip Valica: Just talking to someone right now that lives in Texas, I believe. or no, Kansas, I'm sorry.
Filip Valica: And I don't have any presence in Kansas now.
David M. Frankel: So I said, if you love the product and you'd like to help me, and if it's just part-time, you're more effective. If I can make the calls for you and have you walk in the door and close the deal, that's great. It will be teamwork.
Filip Valica: And I told them, first, point blank, I'm going to be the boss you always wanted. Because I've been in the trenches. I know what it's like to work hard, get a big sale and not take commission check for a month. As soon as it goes in the website and I get paid, a commission check goes out right away.
Filip Valica: And the sales reps that are working for me love that about me. because I treat them the way I always wanted to be treated. And I think it's very important in developing that team. As I continue to grow and as I continue to find sales rep the one to sell for me, I think it's really important to take care of people and follow through
Filip Valica: and give them the resources and the tools I need, business cards. I send them my retractable banner, which wasn't cheap. But if he's going to trade shows for me and saving me the thousands of dollars on trade shows, the least I can do is give them the tools they need to be successful.
Filip Valica: Absolutely. No, that's really great that you mentioned that. So you basically have outside sales reps that are working for you on a commission-based so you cut a certain rate. Is there like an industry standard for that? You know, I think 20% is a typical commission structure for the products.
Filip Valica: Then you have to think about, okay, how do you price things? You have your wholesale prices because every retailer wants as much money as possible. It's almost appalling how much they get. And honestly, they make more money than I do per unit. So obviously, selling my website is ideal because it's the highest profit range for profit margin for me.
Filip Valica: And then you have to figure out, okay, well, if he's going to sell to direct a consumer, then I have a little more playroom because that's the same margin I would normally get from the website. but I have to incentivize him. If there's no money in it for him, he's not going to work all that hard.
Filip Valica: So I give him the same as a wholesale because he's out there grinding, calling, visiting. And then if they sell to a wholesale or a retailer that's going to be selling it, buying it at a wholesale price, I give him a couple dollars per unit. But it should be a bigger sale. It should be a 30, 40, 50 unit sale.
Filip Valica: So hopefully that's enough incentive. Plus, you know, you're starting something brand new. So there should be residual income as well. So I have to help them understand, yes, you only made $50. in that order or $70 in that order, but if they're ordering every month,
Filip Valica: 30, 40 collars, and you have 10 accounts, now you're starting to make real money. So you have to help them visualize the snowball effect. Otherwise, it becomes this heartening for them to start helping you when they're only making an extra 50 bucks, 100 bucks a week a month, whatever the case may be.
Filip Valica: But I expect the hard of you work, the more money you're going to make, but it's going to take time. And I'm asking you to quit your full-time job to come working for me. This is just a part-time thing in the evenings or the weekends to make a little extra money. But I think Perky can be a great company. and we can have natural distribution.
Filip Valica: But I need people like you to get out there and work hard. I'm not actually going to work as hard as I do, but I do need you to work hard to help me penetrate your market. I don't even ask you to travel. Just penetrate your market the best you can, develop quality relationships.
Filip Valica: And I'm really picky about who I hire, making sure they have customer relationship experience. I'm a real critical of customer service because when I get an order, it goes out the same day. I have zero tolerance for things to sit around or have to wait through to get the queue
David M. Frankel: and they ship it out later that week and you get it a week later you know what you have excitement about my product it needs to go out the same day i ship with insurance i ship a priority only and people criticize all the time why don't you send you know snail mail want to send it ground and they'll get
David M. Frankel: it in a week and you'll save yourself two bucks i'd rather i excited customer get the product right away than get it a week later and be checking with me you know what's the update because i want them to see the stages of their purchase into their hands i don't know hey your package is on
Filip Valica: your doorstep at 2.25 p.m. this afternoon so they look for it. It doesn't get lost. And they're, they come home excited to go pick up their package. And they're more likely also to give me before and after pictures because they felt that I cared about the product getting not just for me and I got the sale. I'm done with them,
Filip Valica: but their relationship's just beginning. I want them to proudly talk about how it's changed their life, how they look better in an interview. I want them to show before and after pictures because if they can sell for me, it's much more effective than me selling for me. Absolutely. And so touching
Filip Valica: on the hiring the sales reps, I bet you probably do really well speaking to reps that already go to existing men's accessories or men's clothing stores or whatever your target market is. And so this is just an additional revenue stream for them that they can pitch.
Filip Valica: Or have you found it the other way where maybe your product competes with something else that they're trying to sell and maybe your product doesn't get as much attention whenever they're pitching? Well, I think it's both. I think you have some employees I hire that use working stiffs or use collar stays or metal stays
Filip Valica: and they feel like it does a good job. But when they try the perky collar, I like, well, I like how this looks. I like how it feels. And I'm all asked them to do is go in and talk to people we already know just because it's new and it's different for you, get their feedback. And then I'm happy to even make calls for you.
Filip Valica: I'm happy to set up appointments for you to walk in because I think it's more powerful for you to walk into a store and Wichita, Kansas that I already talked to you, I've already got you excited about the product.
Filip Valica: But instead of me sent a sample and being very informal and very blah, you walk in with the same enthusiasm I have in Charlotte, Carolina, you have in Wichita, you can give them a demonstration. they can see their top button region of a caller resurrect.
Filip Valica: Now you can close the deal for 20, 30, 40 units because you're there face-to-face. They can identify the company with a person versus just sending over the mail. And they don't know who I am, where I am. So there's a lot of disconnect just trying to sell with the telephone. I mean, obviously, it's a necessary evil, and a lot of people don't like it,
Filip Valica: but neither did I like setting up in front of a store during Christmas time. That was definitely outside of my comfort zone. But it's a necessary evil. You have to do it. If you're comfortable, you're not making progress.
Filip Valica: You have to constantly, day in and day out, take yourself outside your comfort zone, approaching people at a restaurant that have a bad-looking collar. It's not my comfort zone. It drives my wife crazy. My family's crazy. I was at dinner in Baltimore, Maryland coming back from a Pennsylvania soccer showcase.
Filip Valica: And we had dinner on the patio, and there was a big group of guys all wearing open-collar dress shirts, all wearing blazers. And I just couldn't look at them without saying something. So I told my daughter, let me go show this guy my product. He's like, Daddy, you're embarrassing me. He's like, I know, hang in there.
Filip Valica: I'm going to teach you a lesson on how to sell. You wouldn't be eating dinner. That's awesome.
David M. Frankel: I walked up to him and said, hey, sir, I'm an inventor from Charlotte North Carolina. I have this brand new product. It lifts up the top button, reach them your dress shirt. And then immediately he grabbed his collar. He's like, yes, it's been driving me crazy all day. It's like, would you like to take a look at the product? He's like, sure. I go to my trunk. I get a sample out.
David M. Frankel: I give it to him.
Filip Valica: And the first thing he does is look to his guys. There's like, kind of him around and say, guys, what do you think? And they all said, with convincing nods, you look so much better. He's like, great. I want to buy one for every one of my employees at Sintas in the Baltimore, Maryland market. And then they started passing around.
Filip Valica: I'd say 10, 15 guys then passed around the Perky calendar, all try it on, asking for people's impression, looks better. Great, I'll take one. Unfortunately, at that moment, I didn't have a lot to sell.
Filip Valica: All I had was prototypes, but I had their business cards, and they place an order, and I was excited that my ability to get outside of my comfort zone led to a nice sale at a restaurant when I really wasn't working, but you're always working. When you're an inventor, you don't stop working.
Filip Valica: You're always watching, who could use my product. How can I change someone else's life? So that was a fun story. That's really amazing. I'm glad that you shared that story. And I think that goes to show everybody that you have to constantly push and you don't know what's going to hit. It's a numbers game, I guess, right?
Filip Valica: It is. Constantly talk to as many people that will listen to you. You're right. I can't go to dinner. I can't go to any restaurants, any patios, any hotels without showing someone the invention because it can help them. The thing I can't control, I can't control people that don't care how they look.
Filip Valica: So if you don't care how you look, you don't need my product. If you don't wear dress shirts, you don't need my product. But the majority of people that do care, the majority of people that wear dress shirts can use my product. It's a man tool and a female tool. And you may not need it for every shirt, but there are those shirts that you love.
Filip Valica: There are those shirts that you're favorite. There are those shirts that you spend good money on that you're not ready to give away to Goodwill. And if I can help one person, two people, 10 people, thousands of people, save that shirt from going to Goodwill or giving to Salvation Army or thrown away,
David M. Frankel: then I think I'm doing a great service, but most importantly is how I can make someone feel when they walk into a meeting, they walk into an interview, they just got back to
David M. Frankel: work, and they have a nice, high-collar professional look, they have a higher, higher-ability rate, just because they feel more comfortable, and that, to me, is worth all the money in the
David M. Frankel: world, and you spend $20, but now you look great all the time, and you don't have to worry about that droopy collar feeling ever. I think it's great. I mean, that's where I really want to change things. And my ultimate goal is actually to have it licensed,
David M. Frankel: wash my hands with a perky collar and not be selling perky collars out of my trunk forever, but to license it into the buttonhole, create a buttonhole in the collar chamber of a dress shirt, and then we can slide in and slide out. So then we'll be treated just like a collar stay. And then you can leave it in your shirt when you hang it up, when you travel,
David M. Frankel: and then I just wash my hands of it and just get a license check and then move on,
Filip Valica: use that finances to create additional products and, you know, additional innovations that I'm hoping will truly help people feel good about their clothes, look better, and feel better about, you know, presenting themselves. Well, you know, I'm glad that you summed everything up that way.
Filip Valica: You spoke about what your motivations are. It's not about making money. It's about having this huge impact in the world. And to some people, it's a way to keep your collar up, but to you, it's a feeling. It's this huge benefit.
Filip Valica: When you come and you have this attitude or maybe this confidence that you're able to, you know, to handle wherever you're at right now better because you feel better and you look better. that's huge because that kind of ties into your pricing, right?
Filip Valica: You're selling a product at 1999 that arguably is a piece of laser cut plastic. I think that for some inventors, that's a hurdle. Or for me, as an engineer, looking at it, I know the manufacturing costs and I know some of your
David M. Frankel: distribution costs to have that vision to say, you know what, I'm going to sell this for $20, but then back that up with, here's all these tangible benefits for that. I'm not selling you at a cost plus. I'm selling you at the value of the product. That's huge.
David M. Frankel: And so I'm really glad that you touched on that.
David M. Frankel: And actually, it was interesting. You mentioned price team.
Filip Valica: 1995, to be exact, but 1999, not far off.
Filip Valica: But how you price your product is also something I learned a lot about. Initially, you think of, okay, well, here's my cost. I worked for a playground manufacturer for seven years. And they had their 20% and 20% and 35% on top of 20% was retail.
Filip Valica: And that's how they came with the retail price. But with products that are in the market, especially in a retail market or a men's clothing,
David M. Frankel: It's not about what it cost to you.
Filip Valica: And that's where, even though it's a piece of plastic, I couldn't just say, okay, my cost is X multiply times 35%. And that's my retail price. I had to base my price on what else sells similar to my product already in stores.
Filip Valica: So really, what I'm competing against is cufflinks, metal collar stays, and working stiffs. And working stiff is $30. So really, working stiff is the closest competition I have. And it's price higher than mine. And I think they're smaller and easier to lose. Excellent. I'm glad that you mentioned that. People instinctively think, you know what, color stay?
Filip Valica: That's a couple bucks. And I get that free from a shirt. but there's already a competitor out there in the market that is charging more than you are. So not only do you have a better product or, I guess, a different product that solves a different need, but it's within the expectations of what customers are already willing to pay for.
Filip Valica: Exactly right. And you have to do your research. I mean, you have to do the grind. Go to the stores and see what it's out there, see what you're competing against and know your market. If there's a ton of competition, you may want to enter the market. And with that product, you may want to go to the other plan B or plan C of your ideas that you want to bring to market.
Filip Valica: But see how much competitions out there. Look at the price. Look at the packaging. I did a lot of research on handkerchiefs. I mean, how much is a handkerchief cost? A nickel. I mean, a dime at the most. You'll
Filip Valica: find pocket squares for $10 to $12 at some of these men stores. You're exactly correct. And actually, one of the models I had was a package of, I think six for eight pocket
Filip Valica: squares and it was $36. I said, holy cow, how do you sell a handkerchiefs for $36? It was a really nice box. So I started to realize, hey, you know what, if I have a really nice package and I have a box, people automatically assume a box is a nice circle.
Filip Valica: quality product, then they're willing to pay $36. And it looks more like a gift. And that's another one of the factors that caused me to go to my box was I had a guy on Facebook say, go box, it'll look more elegant, more expensive, and your margins will be better. And he was 100% correct.
Filip Valica: But again, see that box of handkerchiefs, and I think it was a Belk retail store for $36. I had to buy two of them just so I could see it for myself, show it to invent and say, hey, can we make a box similar to this? And my box has a lot of attributes that this handkerchief box had because I want
David M. Frankel: to charge $2030 because I want people. to feel elegant. I want people to feel this is a really special gift. If it was a perky collar on a
Filip Valica: hang tag at the dollar store, you wouldn't care much about it at all. It wouldn't be an elegant present. But the fact that it's in a nice leather box with a little lid that's got a magnetic lid to it, the purple tab sticking out, it feels elegant. And now I can store my perky collar in it
Filip Valica: between uses. Or if you just have a hang tag, what do you do with a perky collar between uses? You throw it in your, maybe your bathroom counter. It's clear. It's easy to lose, to be honest with you. So having a box, to me, is a safekeeping for somebody that helps you feel good
Filip Valica: and look good all the time. And I did hear stories of people that are traveling that bought the other box, the early box, that were traveling to hotels, driving the cities and same hotels, and then left the perky collar on counters, and maids were thrown it away. They thought it was
Filip Valica: the same plastic that came in the shirt that comes with and you buy it. So that also led me to making sure that customers had a nice box of boot in. So as long as you store in the box, don't leave it on the counter. And there's your warning, not replacing ones.
Filip Valica: they're thrown away by maids, but put it back in the box because you care about your product. You care about looking good. And my design, my product, my blood, sweat, and tears for the last two years, deserves a nice case. There's a nice package. That's great.
Filip Valica: We're nearing the end of the show here, but I know I'm going to get in trouble if I don't ask you this question. How did you get into Amazon? You mentioned that you were selling on Amazon. How did you make that happen?
Filip Valica: Great question. I'm fortunate to be invited to an event in Atlanta, Georgia, or Edison Nation, Part it up with Amazon. So I presented in front of Amazon. I kind of felt like I was on Shark Tank.
Filip Valica: I was like, where's the music? You know, the Dun, Dun, Dun, Dun, Dun, the Shark Tank music. And they laughed. They kind of light in the middle a little bit. I had like two minutes to set up. I threw a tablecloth down that has perky collar on it. Set up my mannequins. And I did a quick
Filip Valica: demonstration. There was six judges. Three were employees of Amazon and three were Amazon partners. And I presented to them in about three minutes. They sent me out of the room and discussed it. They brought me back in the room and said, we love it. We love your margins. We love the product. We love the idea.
Filip Valica: We see this being a great possibility on Amazon. I feel like I was on Eric has got talent. I feel like one of those moments. But they said, welcome to the Amazon vendor express program. And I said, that's it. I'm in. He's like, yes, you are. So please go, here's your yellow paper.
Filip Valica: Take it to the room down the hall and they'll set up your account. And at that moment, I'm like, wow, that wasn't so bad. You know, I just did my thing, show them how it worked. And they were excited about the product. And then the next hour, I sat with it.
Filip Valica: with some of the Amazon employees, and we set up the account, tied my bank account to it, send them some pictures, and everything we could to get everything set up properly so we could start selling on Amazon. And it was a process. I mean, there was some kinks along the way
Filip Valica: because I didn't have, they didn't really have a product category for the perky collar, because again, it's brand new. What categories does it fit in? But they did sell men's accessories on Amazon as a whole, but the perky collar didn't really fit in the Amazon Bender Express categories.
Filip Valica: I actually got an email back about a week after going to Atlanta saying, I'm sorry we rejected your product. So I immediately sent to my guy I sat with for an hour and said, how can you reject my product after I spent this much time? Meanwhile, my products, and it actually went live and then it came down.
Filip Valica: So here I am excited, hey, look, I'm on Amazon, woo! And then suddenly my product's down, I'm like, what's going on? Reach out to him about a week, week and a half, go by. This is in October of 2015.
Filip Valica: He said, we have to relaunch you, reset the account,
Filip Valica: everything squared away. we're going to create, I guess they're going to create a category for me. We're going to fit you into a category that's existing. I think they did it in beauty instead of men's apparel. I'm like, I don't care what category you put me in as long as you put me on there.
Filip Valica: And then after that, they, you know, they asked for 12 samples. If anyone understands how the process works, let me run through it briefly. You have to get them 12 samples, which stinks because you get no revenue for that. In that period of time, they see how well they sell.
Filip Valica: And based on how they sell, determines how big of a PO that they're going to write for you. And my problem was my hiccup happened during this whole, you know, 12 items for free. So I felt like, hey, it really didn't give me a true two-week period because I was up for a week and a half,
Filip Valica: then I was down for two weeks, and I'm back up again. So I think it messed up the logarithms a little bit, is that how big the first PO was. I think my first PO was for five units. So it wasn't a big PEO, but at least it was the first P.O. And since then, I've gotten probably 25 different POs from them.
Filip Valica: Most of them are small between five and 10 units, but we're still making steady progress from about 25 to 40% every month, better and better each month. We've sold probably 75 units on Amazon so far. Again, I'm hoping
Filip Valica: for 750,000s of units. But it's a start.
Filip Valica: And it definitely was a great opportunity to get in front of Amazon customers because of their customer base. But again, as an entrepreneur, you can't give up just because you got that email. It says rejected. You don't just throw the towel in and walk away.
Filip Valica: You demand why. I just saw the movie Joy recently. Great example of how when something doesn't go your way, you can't just let it go, you keep fighting. So I had to keep fighting for Amazon because I thought it was another opportunity to get my product to market. And after lots of
Filip Valica: headaches, that bittersweet relationship developed a little bit because I felt betrayed. I took all the time, drove to Atlanta, four hours, drove into the middle of night to get home. Now suddenly I'm in, now I'm out. What's wrong with Amazon? Just make a new category. I mean, what's so
Filip Valica: hard? But again, they have their process and their purpose of this whole vendor express program. But it's been great ever since. I get an email every Monday morning at 5 a.m. with my new PO.
David M. Frankel: I ship it out to them. They pay for the shipping,
David M. Frankel: which is great. I set the price that they pay for my units. It is Net60, which is the only company that net 60, get everyone else who's paid up front because I'm delivering their product at that moment. But at the same time, you've got to play by the rules. You've got to play by the big boys rules. Absolutely.
David M. Frankel: But it was nice. I think this month is the first time I got a deposit from Amazon. So it's good to, and you can watch it and you see the, they have their dashboard so you can see results and how much they owe you.
Filip Valica: Everything is very transparent, so it's not like you have to keep track of what they owe you. It's, you know, direct deposit. So it's been a good experience. It just took longer than I expected, just like this whole process. I mean, you have an idea. You expect to be a market within a year.
Filip Valica: And every stage, I kept saying how much longer, how much longer? We're just doing a logo, how much longer? We're just doing packaging, how much longer? So you do have to be incredibly patient along the process. It does take about two years to go from idea to market. Mine was 18 months.
Filip Valica: So I was actually ahead of the curve. they were very impressed with how much progress we made. We've sold about 1,050 since we started. We're in 56 retailers. We're in six states plus J. Hilburn reps are in another seven
Filip Valica: states that I'm not, don't have retail establishments in. So we're kind of looking at 13 states that have some retail plus J. Hilburn. And then I have the sales reps that are in
Filip Valica: another handful of states. So we're getting there, one step at a time. Wow, that's huge, David. Congratulations on your success. I'm really happy to see that you were able to go through the whole journey of yourself. You push through. And now you're in.
Filip Valica: in not only are you in one of the largest marketplaces online, but you're also in some of these smaller stores and you're able to have that personal relationship. And most importantly, you're making an impact in the world through your product. And that's kind of what you set out
Filip Valica: to do. So that's huge. Are you able to share how much income is maybe a percentage of your family needs? Are you getting from this product? I wouldn't say we're getting with our family needs yet. But the positive side is that from second quarter 2015 to third quarter 2015, I doubled.
Filip Valica: from third quarter, 2015 to fourth quarter I doubled. So I'm hoping that that continues to be the trend that we double first quarter, 2016, that we did in 2005. But I think, again, it comes down to patience and just allowing it to happen. You can't rush it.
Filip Valica: If you're rushing relationships with retailers, they feel that sense of what's wrong. Why are you rushing me about making a purchase? You seem so desperate. You can't seem desperate. You have to just say, hey, here's a great product. I love for you to make an order. Yeah, I'd love to see my minimum order is 80. You know, that's what comes in a case.
Filip Valica: But realistically, it's a new product, and I understand it's a risk for them. So I'm happy to buy 10, 20. And as long as they do their job and explain it to their customers how it works and they keep reordering, that's fine.
Filip Valica: I mean, I have a company down in Charleston, South Carolina, Dumas & Sons, that were 30 the first time. They were sold out by then the week. They were 50, they just order 30 more. So, yeah, it was only 30, but now, look at the order. Now it's 110. You know, so that's great.
Filip Valica: You guys have been great to do it 110 initially, but being a new product, they don't know if it's going to sell. They don't want to take a whole lot of risk. I'm glad they believed in me, they believed in the product, and they gave you a shot, and now it's doing really well. And it's got to be the right target market. You've got to have
Filip Valica: that 30 to 60-year-old that wears open collar to work on a regular basis. You have to be patient with the big box stores, too, because that's what everyone told me to go. Go hit Nordstrom. This is perfect product for Nordstrom's. Go call men's warehouse. Go call Belk and Dillards and Sacks with
Filip Valica: Avenue. I mean, I hit all of them, and I got email addresses, and then you got to find out who the buyer is, and send them a sample, and I did all that. But no one said, I'll take a thousand. I'll put in 50 stores. The biggest box store that's had interest was The Bath & Beyond, and that was in
Filip Valica: October. And he said, I want to have you in Florida to Virginia in 10 stores as a test. And the corporate office will get in touch with you. Well, I never heard back from the corporate office. I called them a couple times. I'm still hoping we can get in there. But I think I just hit them, you know, towards the end of the year. And by Christmas season, I think I just kind of
Filip Valica: got put on the back shelf. And I can't take it personally. I can't call back and leave a voicemail that's full of hate because they didn't put me on the store shelves like they said they were going too. As much as it was a step backwards, I also want to keep a good relationship with that buyer
Filip Valica: for Bed Bath and Beyond. You know, Belk I met with, they said, we think it'll be lost in the shelf. And I said, where's the innovation? How many new products do you have on your shelf? You know, is it just about hiring someone to stand behind a register and ring things up? What about putting the salespeople on the floor to educate people about products?
Filip Valica: Where is that side of retail? Again, it's so hard when someone says no to not fire back with an emotional email. And that's something I've learned over the last 20 years of business that you just thank them for their time, think of them for their consideration. I hope you reconsider.
Filip Valica: Here's why I think it'll be a big hit. I'm happy to come in and demonstrate the product for you. My time. You don't have to pay me. I'll even give you the proceeds. I did that for a couple
David M. Frankel: retailers. It's like I'm happy to come in and demonstrate the product for you. People get excited about meeting the inventor or seeing the demonstration. I'm here to help you. So I'm hoping over time more retailers, once a small retailers start hitting a big, the retailers say, hey, I want
David M. Frankel: that product too. And they'll come knock on my door. And I'm also hoping that being at Magic
Filip Valica: next month, some of the bigger retailers will be impressed or see the buzz, see my website, and we're in six states. And they'll say, hey, maybe we should take a chance in this guy and put his product in our store. I just really need one big box store to do it because I think
Filip Valica: they'll all follow once one does it. And most of the buyers like the product, they may not love because it's different. And again, you've got to be the storm. You've got to keep knocking. You've got to keep calling you got to keep emailing if you want your product to get in the store shelves you can't call
Filip Valica: once and then hope they call you back because you'll be you'll be dead by time they ever turn that phone call so that's you know another big big point to drive home to entrepreneurs out there and business owners out there is you know don't be satisfied with one phone call hey i did my job i
Filip Valica: called belk and that was it you keep pounding you keep pounding who knows someone at belk network i started a group here called the charlotte entrepreneur think tank to surround myself with other entrepreneurs business owners because i need their network to get into belk i need their
Filip Valica: network to get in the big box doors. Who do they know? Where do they shop? A warm lead is better than a cold lead. And just continue to get yourself out there and learn to do public speaking and learning
Filip Valica: to present yourself in front of strangers. And if you're not willing to get yourself out there, you're going to have a really hard time being successful. It's not for the introvert. That's for sure. David, thanks for all of that. I think I could talk to you probably for next hour and I think
Filip Valica: you'd have plenty of content. I love your energy. Really appreciate you coming on the show. do you have a tip or two for other small business owners or entrepreneurs that are looking to manufacture and sell their own product? What's that one tip they should take from this?
Filip Valica: I'd say find a product that you're passionate about. If you're not passionate, it won't get you through the tough days. And if you're passionate and you wear your product or you use your product
David M. Frankel: personally, you have 100% faith in your business and your product. And that passion comes through when you talk to people. When you do demonstrations, they'll fill your energy. People buy you
Filip Valica: just as much they do the product. So if you're not passionate about your product, you have the wrong product. So if you have five ideas or ten ideas or considering to be an inventor, or considering to bring a product to market, pick the one you're most excited about. And that's
Filip Valica: the one that's going to have the best chance for success. But also go to the marketplace and see what else is out there that's like your product, to see if you're just another product that's amongst several hundreds of other ones just like it. So try and find something that's really unique. Solves a problem because that's something I had to convey in front of Amazon.
Filip Valica: What problem does your product solve? And do how many people have that problem. So make sure the solution you have solves a problem for as many people's possible. Keep your market as general and as big as possible and be passionate because that passion
Filip Valica: gets you through all the tough days. You have a couple good days a week. My grandfather used to tell me if you can have one great day a week, you're doing pretty well. That's like, grandpa, that sounds pretty morbid. He was like, yeah, that's the way life is. So he said, you know what, don't complain
Filip Valica: about your one bad day. You know, be happy if you have one good day per week. And that's something I've always kept them back on my mind all these years that, you know, it's not easy to bring a
Filip Valica: product to market. It's easy to fail. It's easy to criticize. It's easy to let somebody else do it. But for you to grab that product that you're passionate about, that you feel solves a problem and take it to market, there's going to be a lot of people that are naysayers, a lot of people that
Filip Valica: aren't going to believe in you or pukle your idea just because it wasn't theirs. But keep pushing forward. If you believe enough in it, you can bring it to market. David, that's awesome advice. Now, as we're wrapping up the show, can you
Filip Valica: tell people where they can find you. Sure. And if in case people have questions, how's the best place for them to reach you? Sure. The best place to reach it is through the website, which is perkycollar.com.
Filip Valica: That's P-E-R-K-Y, collar, C-O-L-L-A-R dot com. That has the nicest, that's the professional box. It's the most elegant you can store between uses. For a period of time,
Filip Valica: they'll have the old box available on Amazon. And if you're Amazon Prime, you get free shipping, which is always a nice benefit. And then if you go to the website and click on the retail page,
David M. Frankel: feel free to support my local retailers. I mean, again, it's all about grassroots helping them. So don't buy from my website if you have a store near you that sells it because you don't have to pay shipping. So again, it's all about getting the product to market for the
David M. Frankel: lowest price possible, but maintain high quality. One of the tip I meant to add in the last comment was surround yourself with other professionals. It's incredibly important. You can learn from a lot from other people, find a mentor. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. If you can
David M. Frankel: surround yourself with people that strengths where you're weak, it makes a big, big difference it'll save you a lot of money, and be humble enough to realize you're not great at everything.
Filip Valica: This is my third business, and one thing I've learned from my previous two businesses is don't try and do everything to yourself. Surround yourself with incredibly talented people. And if you're passionate about what you're doing and they can see you're driven, they're going to want to be around you and want to be a part of something that you make that special.
Filip Valica: But it's incredibly important to, you know, have a monthly lunch in or a monthly social or weekly lunch, go to groups that are out there, meetup groups, or chamber groups, or B&I groups, or CBO groups, or whatever is out there that's in your neighborhood is close
David M. Frankel: to you. Get connected with those people. And regardless of what field they're in, there's something
Filip Valica: you can learn from them. There's an experience that you can share with them. There's resources,
David M. Frankel: there's companies to do business with. There's people you can trust. And I think that's the biggest factor as being an inventor is, before I invest in a manufacturer, who can I trust? Because if they come up with a wrong product and I spent $7,000 or $10,000 on a product that
David M. Frankel: comes back wrong, I'm in big trouble. That's a huge loss for me. So finding people in packaging, finding people in art design, finding people on website that I can trust is a huge, huge tip to find. And only are you're going to find those people is if you get out there in networking meetings.
David M. Frankel: Absolutely agree. I have a business partner that I work with where every Monday we email each other and we say, you know, what did you accomplish last week? What are you struggling with this week?
Filip Valica: And it helps just to keep us on track. So I totally agree about having the right network.
David M. Frankel: I really appreciate you coming on the show. I love your energy.
Filip Valica: I think people really got a lot out of this episode, and I'm excited to actually publish this online because you're probably the best guest that I could have hoped for for my first episode. So thanks a lot for coming on the show.
Filip Valica: And I'm hoping that a year from now will have you back on the show, and you can tell us about some of the new things that you've created and how your business has grown. Excellent. Well, thank you again so much for having me. I really appreciate it. One last point.
Filip Valica: I understand that being an entrepreneur, and I think this is something everyone can relate to, it is a lonely world. So by surrounding yourself with other entrepreneurs and their business centers that have been there, done that, it makes it feel less lonely. And sometimes our spouses or our loved ones or our family, they're nine to five business people. And they don't understand you.
Filip Valica: They don't get you. They don't appreciate what you're doing. They think what you're doing is a waste of time or money. So if you can surround yourself with other entrepreneurs and have that mentor that kind of keep you going when times are tough, it really does make a big difference. Awesome advice. Thanks again, sir. And I hope to talk to you soon.
Filip Valica: Yes, sir. Thank you for your time. Look forward to being on the show again in a year. And that's all I have for today. Thanks for listening. I've put all the links that we've covered under the show notes posted on the product startup.com slash episode two.
Filip Valica: Join me next week as I talk with Heidi Punkartnik, a designer gone entrepreneur. She writes and talks about the importance of graphic design and business and helps bootstrapping founders figure out branding, marketing, and conversions. Design for founders on episode three.
Filip Valica: And one last thing. If you like this episode and you want to see more like it, or even if you'd want to see something different, it'd be a huge help if you could leave a review on iTunes. I'd really appreciate your support, and I'd read all the comments and questions and try to incorporate them in the future episodes.
Filip Valica: Until next time. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Product Startup Podcast with your host, Philip Valisa. For more great content and to stay up today, visit theproductstartup.com. Your guide to getting there.
Filip Valica: Thanks for tuning into this episode of the Product Startup Podcast. The show that teaches you what it really takes to bring your product to market and turn it into a big success. This podcast series is brought to you by Mako Design + Invent,
Filip Valica: the first firm in North America to provide global caliber end-to-end physical consumer product development to startups, inventors, and small product businesses. If you're looking for product development help on your invention, head over to Mako-design.com.
Filip Valica: That's M-A-K-O-D-Dign.com for a free consultation from one of Mako-Design's four design studios from coast to coast. Thanks for listening and see you next time.
Expert Help With Prototype and Manufacturing Strategy
Use the Prototype to Answer the Decisions That Matter
A prototype should reduce uncertainty about use, performance, cost, manufacturability, protection, or demand. Get help defining those questions and sequencing the right specialists before production.
Work directly with Kevin Mako, the leading expert in hardware startup consulting, to build a practical testing, development, sourcing, and IP strategy. Product Startup provides high-level consulting, coaching, practical industry perspective, and connections across the product development and commercialization journey.
Discuss Prototype and Manufacturing Strategy
Make each prototype move the product closer to a confident business decision.