Product Startup Podcast Episode 008: Temporary Face Masks and the Reality of Shark Tank

00:00:00 Filip Valica: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Product Startup Podcast, podcast that helps bring your product idea to life by chatting with successful inventors, product designers, and other industry professionals. This podcast is run by Mako

00:00:11 Filip Valica: Design + Invent, and hosted by Filip Valica. Our goal here is to get to the bottom of what makes a product successful, from initial idea to putting your product on the shelf. We're taking you step by step to build a functional product and scale your product business. Now onto the show.

00:00:26 Filip Valica: The Product Startup Podcast, episode 8. Welcome to the Product Startup Podcast. Helping you turn ideas into successful products step by step with your host,

00:00:38 Filip Valica: Filip Valica. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Product Startup podcast. In the last episode, we heard from Fabienne Serrière. She created Knit Yak, a business she funded through Kickstarter that sells scarves knitted using patterns based on algorithms,

00:00:51 Filip Valica: founded in mathematics, computer science, and hacking. Each scarf is unique, and she uses a computer program to feed her industrial CNC knitting machine, a new pattern for every order. If you haven't heard that episode yet, make sure to check it out.

00:01:04 Filip Valica: Before I get into today's content, I wanted to thank someone who left the review on iTunes. M. Jerome 2 says, great podcast for DIYers. Philips podcast is great resource for all entrepreneurs in the DIY space or those interested in entering the space.

00:01:18 Filip Valica: His guests are authentic and have been there and done it. Inspirational, keep it up. Thanks a lot, I'm Jerome 2. I really appreciate your comment.

00:01:27 Filip Valica: So if you haven't left a message yet, I'd really appreciate you letting me know what you think. Just go to the product startup.com slash review. And now on to the show. In today's episode, I'm joined by Doug Marshall, the founder of the Game Face Company.

00:01:40 Filip Valica: Doug invented a better way to paint your face. The Game Face Company creates temporary face tattoos and masks that peel off using FDA-approved materials made in the USA. They make custom designs for companies and work great for sports teams or large events.

00:01:55 Filip Valica: Doug will get into behind the scenes of Shark Tank and his partnership with Lori Grinner and Mark Cuban. So let's get started. Hi, Doug. Thanks for coming on the show today. Thanks for having me.

00:02:06 Doug Marshall: So please tell everyone a little bit about yourself and where you started and kind of where you are now. Sure. Well, I'm Doug Marshall and we have the Gainface Company.

00:02:18 Doug Marshall: And basically, I patented the full-face temporary

00:02:22 Doug Marshall: transfer that replaces face paint and costume masks. We started the Gainface Company in October of…

00:02:32 Filip Valica: 2007 and introduced the product in January of 2008, and it's just been kind of developing the product

00:02:39 Doug Marshall: ever since, growing the company. So that's pretty great. Can you talk a little bit about Shark Tank? Well, we started the company and got the product out there, and it started off as just a full-face

00:02:50 Doug Marshall: tattoo, basically, and then we developed it into a peel-away, and that got us into producing product for Marvel and we did the kiss faces.

00:03:01 Doug Marshall: It really took off in the costume industry and for years people have been saying oh you should get on this new show called shark tank like yeah

00:03:11 Doug Marshall: I really don't have time you know as you know when you start a company it takes up a lot of time and of course I'm married and have two kids and that time this will help anyway after hearing

00:03:23 Filip Valica: it for so many years I thought well heck I'll just look into it and see what exactly this

00:03:28 Doug Marshall: Shark Tank show is because I really hadn't watched it and really didn't know anything about it. So basically people egged you on to go on and how did you do? I looked into the auditions and to see how you actually get on the show and you can do it a

00:03:42 Doug Marshall: couple of ways. One is you can do it online, send in a video and just apply that way. Or you can actually go and audition for the show. And I thought, well, with our product being so visual,

00:03:56 Doug Marshall: it would be really cool just to go. in audition. So I actually went out to L.A. I took my dad and my son, and I've got a brother out in

00:04:07 Doug Marshall: L.A. I thought, well, hey, we'll just make it a family trip and go audition. So we did, and interesting, I really think they should make a show out of the audition, because it's so entertaining all the different kind of people that are there. We pulled up to the hotel,

00:04:21 Doug Marshall: and part of the rule was you couldn't get in line until that's the day of the audition. Of course, we were there the day before, and the line had already started. So we got out, and I said, go get a spot in line.

00:04:32 Doug Marshall: So my son ran out, and we were actually 51st in line, and the line just kept growing and growing through the day and throughout the night. And it went down over a mile down the street. Wow.

00:04:48 Doug Marshall: These people with their ideas. So we took her and stayed out there.

00:04:58 Doug Marshall: The audition, they take you in groups of 100,

00:05:01 Doug Marshall: and you go in, and they kind of give you a legal kind of, discussion, what you can do and what you can't.

00:05:09 Doug Marshall: And so you've got three minutes. Once you walk up to a table, they say, you go to that table, that producer about your product, I got three minutes. So we walked up to a table, and I said, okay, we've got this, as you can see, we've got

00:05:22 Doug Marshall: this full-face transfer that we invented, and we've got a patent on it. We make them for so many different distributors, and we do servers and we do Halloween things.

00:05:35 Doug Marshall: She goes, oh, well, that's really cool. And I said, I'll tell you what, now go to video. Tell that guy over there, you can go to video. So, okay, then you wait another three of hours and then they videotape you.

00:05:50 Doug Marshall: So they videotaped our presentation.

00:05:53 Doug Marshall: I said, okay, we'll let you know. So I think, you know, it wasn't two weeks later they called and said, yeah, we watch it. You know, we had a lot going for us as far as a patented product, a proven track record as far as sales.

00:06:08 Filip Valica: You know, our company was up and running, you know, the visual product,

00:06:15 Filip Valica: family business.

00:06:18 Filip Valica: We auditioned in June, and we filmed the show in July. And I've heard that a lot now that the first round, whenever you go and talk to producers,

00:06:26 Doug Marshall: they actually are more interested in the story. And the second round, whenever you actually get on the show, that's when they're more interested in the business. Would you say that was true? Yeah, I mean, the producers are looking for the entertainment value, mostly.

00:06:39 Doug Marshall: And then they kind of look at the, you know, is it an actual product? Is it something that's interesting? Is this something that, you know, the consumer could use? There's just all kinds of ideas and people trying to pitch what they've got.

00:06:53 Doug Marshall: You know, some people were there just pitching a TV show. Wow.

00:06:57 Doug Marshall: We had an actual product and had some success.

00:07:00 Filip Valica: And then when you go to do your video, they want to see, all right, how are you in front of the camera? Can you speak clearly and stand up there and describe your business and your business and your product. That's really hard. I've been behind the camera a few times and I feel like the camera

00:07:15 Doug Marshall: just steals your soul. It's like the American Indians. Like you're looking into the abyss. It's a lot easier when you're having a conversation with somebody versus just standing in front

00:07:25 Filip Valica: of a camera and giving a monologue. Right. And then on top of that, you know, you could be great in front of the camera, but then you don't know how you're going to react when you're actually

00:07:34 Doug Marshall: out there in front of the sharks when it's live and you're really filming. That's when the pressure Yeah, and they're asking you tough questions and you're nervous. So tell me about that. So you went on the show in July. How did that go? Yeah.

00:07:47 Doug Marshall: So you have to memorize your pitch.

00:07:50 Filip Valica: And that's really the most nervous thing to do. I guess what you're the most nervous about is remembering your pitch. Because they want you to say it exactly how they've helped you develop it.

00:08:01 Doug Marshall: You write it and they go, why don't you say this or don't say that? I've always wondered about that because I feel like people go on the show and they all seem to give really pretty decent presentations and and I thought man that's pretty that's an anomaly yeah

00:08:14 Doug Marshall: well that's the pitch you know that's just the initial pitch and it's usually three or four sentences you know it lasts just a minute or so and then that's it once you've got that then you're it's

00:08:28 Doug Marshall: pretty willingly you're on your own so to me the nervous part was you know remembering the pitch so we you know we fly out there and I have the kids on I've got two kids. They're 10 and 12 at the time.

00:08:45 Doug Marshall: So we went out there, and

00:08:47 Doug Marshall: it's a three-day process. You know, they put you up in the hotel, and the first day you go, and it's all legal. So you're in meetings. And again, they tell you, okay, you've got this contract. They go over the contract,

00:09:01 Doug Marshall: what you can do, what you can't do, you know, things like, oh, they can actually take 5% of your company. That was a stipulation that was in there with early shows. And it was in our show. They had the right to 5%

00:09:15 Doug Marshall: of your company. They've taken

00:09:17 Filip Valica: that out since. They don't do that anymore.

00:09:19 Doug Marshall: But just things that, what you can use in marketing with Shark Tank, can you use the logo, can you use it on the product, do speaking engagement. One thing is, you can't run for office two years

00:09:33 Doug Marshall: after you air. That's interesting. So just things like that. So you do that, that's the first day, that's just all legal. The second day is when you go through your pit, you know, they've got your backdrop, they set it all up,

00:09:47 Filip Valica: like in a warehouse, and you go through a box

00:09:51 Filip Valica: station, and there's people sitting there that are representing,

00:09:55 Doug Marshall: you know, they tell you where to stand. You know, it's all, it's pretty flexible. They're thinking of a camera, where the kids should stand, where you should stand, where you're going to put the delay, and all of that. That's pretty good. Basically, you do a dry run, so you're not sitting in

00:10:08 Doug Marshall: front of them for the first time and having to try to get everything right. Right. Yeah. You're, you know, the sharks aren't there, but at least you've gone through it all. with the producers, and, you know, they've seen it.

00:10:20 Doug Marshall: And that way it gives them the ability and the chance to make changes. Okay, we'll move over here and do this. And, for example, in our show, I peel off my face.

00:10:32 Doug Marshall: And in the rehearsal, I just rolled it up and stuck it in my mouth and started chewing on it.

00:10:38 Filip Valica: And they said, what are you doing? And I said, just chewing on this. Oh, you can do that? I said, well, yeah, it's safe.

00:10:45 Doug Marshall: I mean, it's FDA-approved materials, and you know, oh, we'll do that on the show. Right. So, you know, they saw that, and so I actually did it on the show, and a lot of people remember that. Oh, you're the guy that ate your face. That's funny. Yeah, that's me. Well, I guess that's the thing.

00:11:00 Doug Marshall: They look for that one thing that will set you apart from everybody else, so you're more memorable. Yeah, and just they know what's entertaining and what's, you know, they have an eye for that. So then the third day is, you know, you're up. So we got up and they, you know, picked us.

00:11:15 Doug Marshall: up and took the, here at Stony Pictures, we were in Studio 22, and you go in and you just basically sit in this black curtains off area.

00:11:27 Doug Marshall: We were the second to go on,

00:11:31 Doug Marshall: and they do nine in a day. So it was kind of good that we were, you know, early. It's kind of my

00:11:40 Doug Marshall: day. Right. One thing they did about us, you know, we had to go in and get ready for the show and put our

00:11:46 Filip Valica: game faces on, and they didn't want the sharks to see us until we were walking down the hall. There are monitors, and they did. and see what's going on

00:11:56 Doug Marshall: backstage, I guess.

00:11:59 Doug Marshall: So they had us keep our back to the cameras so that when we walked out there, it was the first

00:12:08 Doug Marshall: reaction. That's funny. You walked out on stage and gave your presentation. How did it go? What was the reception?

00:12:15 Doug Marshall: Well, you know, one thing I did ask before I went on, and I'm with my kids, and we didn't know how that was going to work. And I said, well, how long are we going to be out there? And they said, well, normally you'll be out there 30 or 40 minutes.

00:12:28 Doug Marshall: And I said, oh, okay, you know, that's good.

00:12:33 Doug Marshall: So, ended up my, I was out there for two hours. Oh, wow. My thing, presentation went on and on and on. And you'll notice, you know, they said, well, kids, you know, it's time for y'all to leave, which was good.

00:12:46 Doug Marshall: They didn't have to stand there the whole time during the show. But we walked out and, you know, did our presentation and gave samples to the sharks.

00:12:57 Doug Marshall: and then, you know, after I'd given the pitch, and then the kids left,

00:13:03 Doug Marshall: and we started going over all the opportunities of this product and what industry is applicable in. And that's the thing about our product, you think, oh, well, sport fans, you know, paint their face

00:13:16 Doug Marshall: and Halloween, trick-or-treaters, but, you know, we do a camo line,

00:13:21 Filip Valica: which we really don't even promote, which is a great product for hunters. Well, which means it's also a potential product for the military. Wow.

00:13:32 Doug Marshall: And then it's also in the promotional product is. So it's a great way for companies to put their logo on people's faces and give out $10,000 or $30,000 at a game.

00:13:45 Doug Marshall: Right, because you could scale up production on that. You don't have a bunch of people painting faces. You hand out pre-printed faces. Yeah. Like I quoted the Cowboys. Last year they were doing a promotion with AT&T, and it was kind of a last-minute deal. We really, we need a product.

00:14:00 Doug Marshall: We need it quick. Can you get me a product that's around $1.30 each? You need $30,000. Jeez. In fact, I said, yeah, I got a band-it mask, and I can get it to you for a dollar each at $30,000. Wow. Ain't going with an earob thing,

00:14:14 Doug Marshall: but, you know, we can get down to a price where it's a great giveaway. Wow. And it's a great visual, you know, products. You know, we started brainstorming with the, you know, that's the fun part. You're on this big business counseling session

00:14:28 Doug Marshall: with these successful business people, and they've got ideas. So at one point, I laughed at, I was up there just listening to them argue with each other, and Robert was arguing with Kevin,

00:14:43 Doug Marshall: and Mark was arguing with Robert, and we're all kind of yelling at each other, and I just stood up there. I think I was there for 10 minutes, just standing there. And I said, hey, hey, hey, hey.

00:14:57 Doug Marshall: And I was trying to. trying to explain to them, we want to brand the company, and we've got other products. We can do glow in the dark. We could do glitter. And Robert said, Doug, Doug, hey, you're overselling. You're overselling.

00:15:10 Doug Marshall: So it just went on and on, yeah. So it looks like on the show when you see our show, and you're seeing 15 minutes. It looks like Damon's out and all

00:15:21 Doug Marshall: that at me, you know.

00:15:23 Doug Marshall: There's all the drama there, but it really for a long time. The other thing also is that the

00:15:30 Filip Valica: producer said, hey, Doug, just do the best you can,

00:15:34 Doug Marshall: be yourself, be relaxed.

00:15:37 Doug Marshall: And they said, you know what? The editors can make you look good or they can make you look bad. And it's all in their hands. And so, and it's true because you're going to have bad moments. Right, absolutely. You're going to have good moments. And ours, we have a little, you know, there's a bad moment,

00:15:52 Doug Marshall: then it gets better. Right. They have to sell the story a little bit. Yeah. So tell everybody how it ended. So what's interesting about my show, our episode is we were the first company to be offered a million dollars. Wow.

00:16:07 Doug Marshall: So they really promoted that. You know, company gets offered a million dollars, you know, coming up. And the thing about our show also, we filmed it in July. We didn't. We thought, oh, well, we're going to air probably around Halloween.

00:16:20 Doug Marshall: It's kind of a Halloween item. Halloween came and went, didn't air. And they said they'll call you two weeks before it air. So then Christmas is coming up and we're waiting and you can't say anything. They can actually find you.

00:16:35 Doug Marshall: I think it was like $1.5 million if you tell anybody. Jeez.

00:16:40 Doug Marshall: What happened on a show? And here I've got two kids who are going to school in a small town and everybody knows we just filmed Shark Tank. Right. So like, I can't tell you. I can't tell you.

00:16:53 Doug Marshall: So finally we ended up being the first show to air in January.

00:16:59 Doug Marshall: and, of course, we got the notice, so we had a big party and watched it. So I had three offers.

00:17:04 Doug Marshall: I had an offer from, basically, to bank us. I had an offer from Lori and Mark together from

00:17:13 Doug Marshall: Mark to a company for a million. Wow. And so when, you know, you're up there and you get these offers,

00:17:19 Filip Valica: so now they're like, okay, what do you want to do? What's your decision?

00:17:23 Doug Marshall: So I'm standing up there like, okay, I need to buy some time.

00:17:28 Doug Marshall: And so I said, well, I'd like to talk to my family. Oh, yeah, that's fine. So the producer runs back to the Lori, my wife, who's sitting there.

00:17:42 Doug Marshall: You're on. And she's like, what? She's like, yes, you've got three offers, and Mark's offered him a million dollars, and you've got to go on. That's funny.

00:17:53 Doug Marshall: So she's like, oh, my gosh. So they run her out to the hall, so I meet her in the hall. And we start talking, and I'm trying to remember, okay, what are all the offers here? We're going over and over the offers.

00:18:07 Doug Marshall: And at one point, oh, I had peeled off my face and had left a portion of it on my nose. And I didn't know it was on my nose.

00:18:16 Doug Marshall: And she reached over and she asked, oh, yeah, pick that off my nose. And they rushed the camera people, rushed us and said, don't touch his nose. Continuity, continuity.

00:18:26 Doug Marshall: So she couldn't pick it off my nose. So I had to leave it on my nose.

00:18:31 Doug Marshall: And we kind of discussed it.

00:18:33 Doug Marshall: One thing that's not on the show, Kevin yelled out. Hey, Doug, it's only an hour show. I said, okay, I've got to go. How long did they give you to make that decision? That's a pretty big decision. Well, it wasn't long. I can tell you that.

00:18:45 Filip Valica: It probably seemed like forever, but it was probably two or three minutes. Wow. Yeah, you got cameras rolling, and you've got to decide.

00:18:54 Doug Marshall: So I came back, and

00:18:59 Doug Marshall: I ended up with Mark and Lori.

00:19:01 Filip Valica: They invested $450,000 total, so $225,000 each. for

00:19:10 Doug Marshall: that we use that capital to further develop the peel away tattoo and then also develop the what we call the dry out

00:19:22 Doug Marshall: okay because because until now you had a printable tattoo and that was it yeah so after that point we just you know we had a tattoo okay that basically you washed off and

00:19:32 Doug Marshall: what I had shown was the peel away which is something we were developed but we had to go into production with it was the patent on if you don't mind sharing like was it on the manufacturing process Our patent is a utility patent on a full-face transfer.

00:19:46 Doug Marshall: So anything you put on your face that's full-face, that's our pattern. So it includes any type of transfer. So we had to develop it so that, well, you know, you could put anything on your face, but then you've got to get it off.

00:20:00 Doug Marshall: So we developed the peel-away tattoo, which no one had ever developed, a water application peel-way tattoo.

00:20:08 Filip Valica: So that's our tattoo face. And then we thought, well, you know, if you're at a game and as a promotional item or something you're going to buy at the stadium, you know, you're not going to have scissors

00:20:20 Doug Marshall: and water and everything to put it on. So then we came up with the dry apply, which is a peel and stick, like a sticker that goes on your face.

00:20:30 Doug Marshall: And it's a 3M, it's a breathable, FDA-approved material, topical, which means it's safe for your skin. It's made for skin application. and it has flexibility to it. So it's like a stick-on mask.

00:20:43 Doug Marshall: We call that the fan mask and the band-in-law. That sounds really cool. So did you go through the FDA approvals yourself or did you use an existing material that was already approved? Well, we had to on the tattoo face because we developed a whole new adhesive.

00:20:57 Doug Marshall: So we did on that. So you had all the safety data sheets going through. And then on the 3M, the dry apply, it's already done because it's already created. Right. So we just used it for that application. So we didn't have to think that.

00:21:11 Doug Marshall: So that's, you know, but. No, go ahead.

00:21:14 Filip Valica: We do sell the Europe. So this would be good for your listeners. So now anytime you sell anything in Europe, you've got to get what's called CE certified.

00:21:22 Filip Valica: And it's kind of like the FDA in the U.S. But or depending on like a U.I, that's a U.L or electronic goods, C.E certification for Europe.

00:21:33 Doug Marshall: So you've got to go through the process of getting their safety data sheets showing that it's safe to use. And so we had to do that. that for our European.

00:21:44 Doug Marshall: Wow. So the rest of the country, the rest of the world is pretty much okay with FDA approved material.

00:21:52 Doug Marshall: Europe, you know, if they had their own.

00:21:55 Doug Marshall: Right. Can you maybe talk a little bit into detail? So I'm sure there's people that have their own health product that might be governed by the FDA. The FDA has pretty, I think it has some pretty broad categories that it goes into. Right.

00:22:08 Doug Marshall: Anywhere from anything that you ingest, anything that's topical, I've seen some home health a health aides that have to be FDA approved.

00:22:15 Filip Valica: It's a little difficult to kind of comprehend, but it's not, a product isn't FDA approved. It's the ingredients.

00:22:23 Doug Marshall: It's the materials that it's made out of. Oh, interesting. So, you know, you could have a product, but you've got to make sure that the product materials that you use to make, to create that are FDA approved.

00:22:36 Doug Marshall: People say it's FDA approved, but it's really it's FDA approved materials. And that's the same with CE certification. You could have a product, but if they don't have it listed for

00:22:50 Filip Valica: you to use, whether it's a chemical or an element,

00:22:56 Doug Marshall: then you're not going to get approved because the material has to be approved. And you had to get your adhesive approved. So did you actually go to a lab that specializes in that, or did you do that yourself? Yeah, there are labs. There's all kinds of labs that you can use that will test your product.

00:23:11 Doug Marshall: Our lab, we use with intertech, and they have offices in the U.S. and Hong Kong, the U.K. So,

00:23:18 Doug Marshall: but there's other labs out there as well. So you just, you know, contact them and say,

00:23:25 Doug Marshall: hey, I need them to have the safety data sheets.

00:23:28 Filip Valica: I need it for U.S. and Europe. I bet that was pretty daunting process if you haven't gone through it before, but it sounds exciting, too. Yeah. Well, it is. It's daunting and, you know, everything else.

00:23:40 Doug Marshall: I mean, you know, whether you're dealing with trademarks and copyrights and patents, you know, you've got attorney bills and just a lot of detail.

00:23:50 Doug Marshall: tails to keep track of and it's just part of running a business you know you have to watch everything and basically i had to do it you know we were a small business and we're still a small business so if you're

00:24:01 Doug Marshall: an entrepreneur and you've got an idea and you want to create a product there's different ways to go about it but if you're going to create a product have it manufactured part of company and start

00:24:11 Doug Marshall: distributing it you got a lot to do no yeah i could totally see that could you give people a kind of ballpark level of effort, maybe how long the process took and maybe roughly how much it would

00:24:22 Doug Marshall: cost for someone to do something like that? Any industry in the trade show business, if you're a startup company and you've come back to the show and you're there for the third time, they consider you a success.

00:24:35 Doug Marshall: So many companies go out of business third

00:24:39 Doug Marshall: year and a lot go after it.

00:24:42 Doug Marshall: It's a matter

00:24:45 Doug Marshall: having enough capital to sustain and then try to make your money with the product you feel like you can get the biggest hit out of right away to get you started. You know, like us, we developed this product.

00:25:01 Doug Marshall: This product just came to me in a dream.

00:25:06 Filip Valica: A football game and the guys next to me in their faces, and it was a mess.

00:25:12 Doug Marshall: In my dream, I just said, why don't I do a full paper in anything, put it off. That's crazy. Well, yeah, so that's where it started. All right, so then I started measuring faces and I made templates out of fabric

00:25:27 Doug Marshall: and, you know, and do, okay, am I going to go forward with it? this or not. You don't tell anybody about it until you get at least a patent vending number. Right.

00:25:36 Doug Marshall: And so you're going to add about

00:25:38 Doug Marshall: $25,000 the $30,000 investment there,

00:25:42 Doug Marshall: getting your patent.

00:25:43 Doug Marshall: So we just kind of at the bull.

00:25:47 Doug Marshall: You've got to look into that, you know, where do you want to take it? Where do you see the product? Are you,

00:25:53 Doug Marshall: and also look at your own abilities.

00:25:56 Doug Marshall: I mean, there are a lot of inventors out there, but they're not marketers. Right. They're not salespeople. Yeah, and they might not even be small business owners. No. And, I, and, I,

00:26:04 Doug Marshall: And I get, I mean, I couldn't tell you how many products I have on the shelf that people have sent me saying, can you take on my product and bring it under your company wheel house, or to speak. Wow.

00:26:17 Doug Marshall: So, yes, but, you know, I knew that, you know, I'd been in sales, I'd been in management. I was the sales manager for years for a company. And I lived in Taiwan for a year when I was 25.

00:26:31 Doug Marshall: I moved off and got into import, export.

00:26:35 Filip Valica: just, you know, did it.

00:26:37 Doug Marshall: So I knew I could do it. It's just I needed the capital. And that's what a lot of people run into. It's like, oh, I got this great idea.

00:26:46 Doug Marshall: I know I can manufacture it, but I need some capital to get it started.

00:26:51 Filip Valica: And so the best place to go, if you're starting a business, you know, the bank's not going to lend you anything.

00:26:58 Doug Marshall: And an investor, a big investor is going to want most of your item, most of your product, and move of your company.

00:27:06 Doug Marshall: And so I just went to friends and family. That's where you really get started. And I said, listen,

00:27:13 Doug Marshall: I got this idea.

00:27:15 Doug Marshall: I think it's a million-dollar idea.

00:27:18 Doug Marshall: So I'm going to sell you a percentage of it for $10,000.

00:27:23 Doug Marshall: So I'm because I said it's a million-dollar idea.

00:27:26 Doug Marshall: I'll sell you 1% of the company for $10,000. And I was able to raise $80,000. And that got us started. So you gave away 8% of your company when you first started? Yeah. So that's how we started.

00:27:38 Doug Marshall: So now we've got those, that 8%, and then we've got Mark and Lori.

00:27:45 Doug Marshall: I knew going into Shark Tank that I wanted to maintain 51% of the company, so I would have a majority control. Right. So we did it. It all worked out.

00:27:56 Doug Marshall: When did you get the money from Shark Tank, and then what have you done with that in the last, I guess, a couple of years? Oh, yeah, that's a whole other.

00:28:04 Filip Valica: Well, how much time you have, but I'll tell you this short story.

00:28:07 Doug Marshall: I was in Chicago at the houseware show a couple years ago

00:28:12 Doug Marshall: and the people said oh hey there's some other people here from Shark Tank and it's those people that had the

00:28:18 Doug Marshall: oh it's some sort of an apparel bag that the cleaners would hold for you and you could reuse it. Do you remember those guys? It was a couple from California. Yeah, I think I remember them.

00:28:27 Filip Valica: And I said, oh yeah, go over there and talk to them. And so I went over there and I met them and they said, oh yeah, yeah, we were just

00:28:35 Doug Marshall: talking about you. We were with the two guys that have the tea company and another group that was on shark tag and they said you know what we call you

00:28:45 Doug Marshall: I'm like no you call me and I said we call you the carry underwear of shark tank really and I go oh yeah

00:28:54 Doug Marshall: they said you got the best deal and your deal went through the exactly how it was shown on TV and I said well yeah most of them and I said oh no well and I and I had read this the New York Times I did a study and

00:29:07 Doug Marshall: 60% of the deals that you see don't go through. Oh, my God. Wow, that's crazy. And they looked at me, and they said, did you lie? And I said, what? And I go, you know, did you lie? I go, what do you mean? I said, well, most of the people lie. And he said, really?

00:29:22 Doug Marshall: And they said, yeah, they lie about, you know, how long they've been in business.

00:29:26 Filip Valica: Do they have a patent or are they trademarked, what their sales are, what their profits are? Wow.

00:29:33 Filip Valica: Come into the company they own.

00:29:35 Doug Marshall: That's pretty short-sighted because, you know, they're going to, do their due diligence before they put any money into it. I know. So I said, no, I wasn't going to go on national TV and live. So, yeah, to answer your question, there is about a six month period where they do their due diligence

00:29:49 Doug Marshall: and they look into you and who you are and your company.

00:29:54 Doug Marshall: And so

00:29:55 Filip Valica: they looked into us and we were exactly what

00:29:57 Doug Marshall: we said we were. So what we did is we actually created

00:30:02 Filip Valica: a whole new company. We created global sport products

00:30:05 Doug Marshall: and we incorporated it on a Delaware. Mark and Lori wanted to do. So we wrote up all new papers, we worked out our ownership. That way we kind of still clean slate, you know, with this new…

00:30:20 Doug Marshall: So, you know, it took a while.

00:30:24 Filip Valica: There are horror stories, and I'm sure you've, you know, as many people as you've interviewed and talked to, maybe heard some of the stories about the Sharks, never funding. Have you heard any of those stories?

00:30:34 Doug Marshall: Honestly, it's the first time I've heard of it, but I haven't really focused on following up with everybody that gets an offer, so that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I've heard some stories, and I've talked to some people. There's all kinds of stories in Shark Tank.

00:30:50 Doug Marshall: One in particular is a guy that I've become friends with that was on Shark Tank, that went on, made a deal, is in the commercials for Shark Tank, but never aired.

00:31:05 Filip Valica: Wow. That's terrible. Doug, I never aired. You're kidding. He goes, no. They even show me on a commercial. and I never even aired. And of course, he never got funding for it. Right.

00:31:16 Doug Marshall: And so, well, he could have. It's all about, that's what people, you know, need to understand.

00:31:21 Filip Valica: It's not about going on and filming. It's not about getting a deal. It's about airing. If you air, you basically won a multi-million dollar ad campaign for your company,

00:31:34 Doug Marshall: whether you get funding or not. Right. I've definitely noticed that. In the last few campaigns, I feel like people intentionally ask some ridiculous. amount of money just to get rejected by the sharks so they can use that free publicity and not really give anything away.

00:31:47 Doug Marshall: Yeah, and I don't see how they get away with that because, you know, I went in asking

00:31:52 Doug Marshall: $650,000 and the producer said, you can't do that. I'm like, why not? He goes, no one's ever asked for that much. I'm like, well, that's what I'm acting for. And they just begged me, please don't ask for that much. So I thought about that, okay, I'll ask for $450, all right, that's fine.

00:32:07 Doug Marshall: That's funny. And I think the sharks know that. I mean, they go in and they're. asking for that amount. And who knows

00:32:13 Filip Valica: how many of those shows you never see.

00:32:18 Doug Marshall: Yeah. So that everybody knows, you filmed in the summer of 2012, right? And then it aired at the end of 2013. Is that… It aired in January at 2013. I was actually

00:32:32 Doug Marshall: the first presenter of the new year in 2013. And so here we are three years later, and you've had two new partners in the company.

00:32:44 Doug Marshall: How has that helped you grow? And we aired again because we did our update. That's right.

00:32:51 Doug Marshall: And we were able to show the new dry apply product.

00:32:55 Doug Marshall: So evidently, and I don't know who measures all of this, but I've been told that we're one of the top 10 shows of Shark Tank. Evidently, it's entertaining. In fact, my niece called us last week and said,

00:33:08 Doug Marshall: well, they just showed your episode in my business class. That's awesome. I'm like, really?

00:33:12 Doug Marshall: Yeah. And she goes, hey, that's my uncle. So anyway, we continue to air. And so with them selling the rights to MSNBC, then it airs internationally. So

00:33:24 Doug Marshall: we air, I would say, all the time, but fairly frequently in different parts of the world. Yeah. So you're basically you're continually getting publicity.

00:33:32 Doug Marshall: Yeah, we continue to get publicity. The one thing that did surprise me, of course, we were just hammered with requests and emails and phone messages.

00:33:42 Filip Valica: And it was really difficult at first because the World Cup was going on,

00:33:48 Doug Marshall: and we had orders that, you know, they wanted millions of these. But we couldn't ship because we hadn't perfected the product yet. With us, it was kind of a catch-22.

00:33:59 Filip Valica: All of a sudden, we became really popular and a great product that we really couldn't sell.

00:34:04 Doug Marshall: So it was really, it was tough. Since then, you know, we've perfected everything and we continue to air. but we didn't really get that really big push it at first to be able to ship out product right away. So that kind of hurts.

00:34:20 Doug Marshall: But since then, and the one thing that really surprised me about Sharkank is how international it is, and you may not realize it,

00:34:27 Filip Valica: but people watch it all over the world. No, and I've never thought about that either. Yeah, and it's just not, I'm not talking repeats. I mean, they watch it live, they live stream it from their computers, and they're looking for new products and new ideas.

00:34:41 Doug Marshall: We've been knocked off in China. I mean, we've had products stolen. There's a product you can buy that will have my picture on it, that it's my design,

00:34:50 Doug Marshall: and everything on Alibaba.

00:34:52 Doug Marshall: And God help you, if you put it on your face, because I had a distributor buy it, and he couldn't take it off his face for two weeks. Oh, wow. And it smelled really bad, he said. That's a lesson that you remember for a while.

00:35:06 Doug Marshall: Yeah, so they, you know, they made this product, and it looks like ours. They use our template.

00:35:11 Filip Valica: It's our pictures, our designs, and everything, but they don't know how to make our adhesive. So that's one of our trade secrets for the tattoo face.

00:35:20 Doug Marshall: Have you made an effort to try to patent this internationally, or are you not even bothering? Well, the tattoo face, we didn't because we don't really need to because nobody else knows how to make it. And we're kind of going to the dry apply anyway.

00:35:32 Doug Marshall: So we do have international patent pending for the dry apply. So, you know, we're good on that and we're protected and as much as we can be. You know, what do you do? They start making it.

00:35:45 Doug Marshall: You could eat up a lot of legal expenses just chasing copy and arrangement. Right, yeah, it's not worth your time. So as partners, do you think that Lori and Mark, obviously they have huge teams of people that

00:35:56 Doug Marshall: probably help, but what do you get out of being partners with them that you really appreciate it? Number one is we were at a point where we really needed the capital because we were at a real growth

00:36:06 Doug Marshall: mode and we were struggling because we had orders and we needed to develop this product and manufacturing issues and I needed the capital. So really, number one, that really did help. I mean,

00:36:18 Doug Marshall: that's why we were there, really. Number two, having Mark and Lori gave us kind of a grubby toss in talking to account, whether they're retail accounts or distributors or promotional, you know,

00:36:31 Doug Marshall: corporation accounts. You know, Mark Cuban is my partner. You can't beat that. Right, you just drop their name and the doors open with the heart playing in the background. Right.

00:36:42 Doug Marshall: It helps, and most people know just from being on Chart Tank. They know us. So just by airing that, you know, that really opened it up. But Mark, he has his team. He has over 100 companies now.

00:36:54 Filip Valica: And so he's got his team of people that help out with marketing or, you know, we'll advise you on accounting. And he's got his own, you know, attorneys that he uses. And, you know, there's things like that that we can plug into. Lori does a lot of it on her own

00:37:08 Filip Valica: She doesn't have the team as much But she can plug you in and help you in Getting in with like Disney or home shopping

00:37:15 Doug Marshall: Or just different retail accounts And then she has really good An eye for design For example, I knew two weeks ahead of time That we were going to air That we're going to air in January So I call Lori and I said, hey, we're airing

00:37:30 Doug Marshall: And she's like, okay, we got to work on your website She goes, let's meet All right, okay, you're in Chicago? And she goes, yeah, can you be here tomorrow? I'm like,

00:37:40 Doug Marshall: well, okay,

00:37:42 Doug Marshall: I guess so.

00:37:44 Filip Valica: So she goes, okay, fly to Chicago, catch a cab, come to my house, and we'll meet, and we'll go over everything. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So I did. I took off, you know, like, I don't know, like four in the morning or six in the morning, whatever.

00:37:58 Filip Valica: Flew to Chicago, cab in the rain, got to her house, met with her for three or four hours.

00:38:05 Doug Marshall: We just basically went through the website and she just said, okay, do this, do this, do this, change that, move that, move that, do this, do this. And, you know, it was great

00:38:14 Doug Marshall: because it really helped. So, you know, she's, you know, she's got an eye for design and because that's her business, you know.

00:38:21 Doug Marshall: Right. And I think everyone can take something away from this. It's, you're not just getting money from an investor. You, they should be bringing something else to the table, some unique skill set

00:38:31 Filip Valica: or connections or something to help propel you to the next. up because a lot of people I think look at the money and then maybe stop there but a partner

00:38:40 Doug Marshall: needs to bring way more than that yeah and it's whatever effort they want to put forth in it if they see the potential they're probably going to put forth more effort and what they're doing with you

00:38:49 Doug Marshall: I mean I can't speak for Damon or Kevin or Robert of what they do or Barbara so you know I've heard different stories but every company is unique every company has its own you know issues as

00:39:03 Doug Marshall: as far as leadership,

00:39:05 Doug Marshall: you know, I'm willing to listen and make changes. And, you know, if they have a better idea, you know, I'm all for it. Well, and that's good that you take that advice. I think people are hesitant of handing the keys over to somebody else to say, wait, no, I'm the one that

00:39:20 Doug Marshall: created this. You're not allowed to tell me what to do. But that's kind of the whole point of having an investor that has that background knowledge is that if you're going to tell them that they can't have a say in it, then you're kind of wasting the contribution. Yeah. And then they're

00:39:33 Doug Marshall: The other side of that, too, is that you can't really let them just take control of it, because they really don't know the business like you do. Now, maybe if you've got a new product and you're just starting off,

00:39:44 Doug Marshall: but, you know, we've been in business three years and had over 400, you know, retail accounts,

00:39:50 Filip Valica: and I knew the product backwards and forwards, I knew what the potential was and what the potential wasn't.

00:39:58 Filip Valica: So, you know, at the same time, you've got to go off your gut feeling. Right.

00:40:02 Doug Marshall: Basically, you make an educated. argument on why you feel a certain way and be able to back it up. Otherwise, I guess they'll call you out. Yeah, I mean, it's tough.

00:40:14 Filip Valica: I mean, it's shark tank and going on and getting an investor and doing all of that is sharp for the background noise. There's a little more than just going and getting an investment group,

00:40:31 Doug Marshall: having the money and running your business. There's a lot more to it. And there's a, I wouldn't say a lot, but there are more pressures. Because you're dealing with not only successful business people, you're dealing with celebrities.

00:40:46 Doug Marshall: So, and that's different than just dealing with your, you know, business man who lives two doors down. It's got, you know, a couple hundred thousand to invest somewhere. And then you're dealing with Shark Tank.

00:40:58 Doug Marshall: I showed the video and I speak at Chamber of Commerce groups that want to know about business and entrepreneurship. entrepreneurs groups and volunteer and, you know, do stuff like that. Because people are really curious.

00:41:13 Doug Marshall: You kind of become a figure in a sense. I didn't really know people watch Sharkade. Really,

00:41:19 Doug Marshall: I didn't even know much about it when I went on. And when people are recognizing me in an airport, are you kidding me? You recognize the person that was on Shark King. That's really great. Yeah, how is that possible? Congratulations on all your success.

00:41:34 Filip Valica: Can you talk a little about where your sales are now or how if you've achieved the goals that you've set out for yourself? You know, we have.

00:41:41 Doug Marshall: You know, we're still under a half a million. You know, we haven't even done a million yet. So we're still new in a sense because we've got this new product coming out. And so with the fan mask and the bandit mask, and then we've come out with the new jewel phase.

00:41:56 Doug Marshall: I have to ask you, you talked about your manufacturing process being proprietary. Does that mean that you have that in-house or do you still outsource your man? We outsource all of our manufacturers. Okay.

00:42:07 Doug Marshall: We don't have the volume enough to keep a manufacturer busy, and most companies are going to be that way.

00:42:13 Doug Marshall: If you're going to manufacture your product yourself, that machinery or your mechanism or however you're going to manufacture be running all the time. Idle machinery costs money.

00:42:25 Doug Marshall: So unless we're just crank it out faces, you know, eight hours a day, it's not economical or feasible really for us to be manufactured. it. And there's enough manufacturers out there. Now, our product's made in the U.S. Would we go to China?

00:42:41 Doug Marshall: Possibly. We already did with the jewel face. I couldn't find a manufacturer in the U.S. that could make the jewel face. There isn't one. So I had to go to China. I didn't have any choice.

00:42:50 Filip Valica: So, you know, we do have those relations, you know, in China.

00:42:55 Filip Valica: And if we reach a volume where, because

00:42:58 Doug Marshall: your volume usually is more when you go to China, you know, you've got, you're going to do, to the thousands, you need to be doing tens of thousands. We'll reach that point, and I think we're going to, hopefully by the end of this year,

00:43:11 Doug Marshall: then we'll have a relationship with a Chinese manufacturer that can crank out our product. So how are you able to protect your idea when it's proprietary, but you're not there every day and you're not running the manufacturing floor?

00:43:25 Doug Marshall: Well, it's no problem in the U.S. because you've got U.S. patent laws, and so you're not going to run into that. and our tattoo faces, we keep them made here because I just don't want to show them how to make it. As soon as I do that, it gets out of the bag.

00:43:39 Doug Marshall: As far as our dry apply, it's a material that we can control how much material they have in a sense. But, you know, really,

00:43:48 Filip Valica: you can only do so much.

00:43:50 Doug Marshall: And so what you want to do, if you're going to have a product, if you're going to start manufacturing overseas, and you're concerned about being knocked off, and I mean, look at how many Rolex watches you can buy it. Right.

00:44:02 Doug Marshall: You know, go, it's not the same watch, but it shouldn't look like it.

00:44:05 Filip Valica: Well, you want to brand yourself. So that's what we're doing with the gangface company. And so we've got distributors in different parts of the world,

00:44:13 Doug Marshall: and they're basically our Gainface liaison in that country.

00:44:19 Filip Valica: And we, you know, have our logo, and you know that if you buy a Gainface company product, it's going to be safe to put on, and it's not going to cause you to break out or your child to break out or, you know. Right.

00:44:32 Doug Marshall: So, you know, we hit it hard. We set up the distribution. We brand ourselves. Great.

00:44:39 Doug Marshall: Well, I think you've done really well. So, you know, congratulations for getting where you are today. And, you know, your journey is really amazing. So I really appreciate you sharing that with everybody. Well, sure. I enjoy it. I mean, I wish I had someone to talk to before I went on, a shark tank.

00:44:54 Doug Marshall: You know, a start of business. And I love to talk to people that are just getting started. because hopefully I can save them, you know, some time and some money, just from the experiences that I've had and my family's had. You know, I can't say that it's not a sacrifice.

00:45:09 Doug Marshall: And if anyone's interested and if they're going to be, if they're an entrepreneur and they're going to start a business, out of scratch especially,

00:45:17 Doug Marshall: and go out, it's going to be a sacrifice. And really, your whole family is going to be in it.

00:45:22 Filip Valica: It's like Mark said the other day in an interview, you know, you've got to go out on the end of the limb to get the fruit. Right.

00:45:28 Doug Marshall: You've got to just analyze your life and determine whether you're not only capable or willing to sacrifice to do it. And it isn't a one-time, oh, now we've done it. It's a daily sacrifice. Yeah, you're continually grinding.

00:45:43 Doug Marshall: Yeah, I mean, I think about Donald Trump. I mean, how many marriages have you been doing? Well,

00:45:49 Filip Valica: really, he's a businessman, and it probably,

00:45:52 Filip Valica: it's a sacrifice that he made, and it cost him a family life in a sense.

00:45:58 Doug Marshall: I'm not sure that Trump took as many wives as he did because he was making sacrifices for his business. But I think that's very debatable.

00:46:07 Doug Marshall: Well, I'm just using it as an example. I'm sure there are a better example. I can absolutely understand with what you're saying, though.

00:46:16 Doug Marshall: You know, while we're on the topic, you said that, you know, if you can help some people out from making the same mistakes, did you make any that you feel that other people can learn from? Yeah, I mean, I'm sure. Oh, I'll take you one mistake.

00:46:28 Filip Valica: that I would never do is pay a loyalty on your sales to an investor.

00:46:35 Doug Marshall: And investors will agree with you on that. Because when you're starting a company and starting a new product and then developing new product, you're cash strapped. So the last thing you want to do is be having to pay out a percentage of your sales.

00:46:50 Doug Marshall: Now, if it's gaining sales, you know, that's another thing. I've got sales reps. And for example, oh, that's another bit. advice. If you're going to get sales wraps, don't get reps that just want to carry your line and then go

00:47:04 Doug Marshall: sell it. Get reps that specialize in certain accounts.

00:47:10 Doug Marshall: So if you've got a product and you want to try to get into Walmart, find a rep that only calls on Walmart and they're out

00:47:17 Filip Valica: there. That's their only account. They're Walmart rep. That makes complete sense because they're basically a specialist and they know how to get around the

00:47:25 Doug Marshall: roadblocks that normal reps wouldn't. Right. And they've been calling on Walmart for, you know, 10, 20, 30 years, and they've got the relationships, and they

00:47:34 Filip Valica: know how to do it.

00:47:35 Filip Valica: Same way with Myers, CVS, Walgreens, Target, Rite Aid. So there are, and that's just from me,

00:47:45 Filip Valica: you know, making mistakes, and then getting

00:47:48 Doug Marshall: the advice of other businesses. So speaking of advice, I guess, where did you turn to for that, other than the sharks after you got them, were there any books or tools that you really appreciated, that helped you out?

00:48:00 Doug Marshall: You know, I tend to listen to people who I respect that are successful in a sense and maybe in the same situation. So I had a lot of contact from other presenters or companies

00:48:14 Doug Marshall: and people that were on Shark Tank. And I've had some really good friends now that we're on Shark Tank and presented and got deals and didn't get deals. And we're kind of a support group with each other. In

00:48:29 Doug Marshall: a sense, you're kind of part of a fraternity in a sense. Right. You've got some camaraderie there. You help each other out. Yeah. And also the small business development group in our town.

00:48:42 Doug Marshall: Because once we started, we were shipping out of our house, out of the garage.

00:48:47 Doug Marshall: And I really couldn't afford a big office, and I needed warehouse space. So I went to the small business development group in our town, and they had cheap's office space. and it was a business incubator.

00:48:59 Doug Marshall: So if you want to get out of a house, you want to have an office, and you don't want to spend too much, I mean, Regis, and some of these other places can get expensive, find a small

00:49:08 Doug Marshall: business development group in your area, and they get federal funding, some state funding, I think, and they need businesses to come in to help because then they get more funding. So they really want to help you. Right.

00:49:22 Doug Marshall: So if there's anybody listening, another keyword to search for is called SC-O-R-E. And that's another group of retired executives. Yeah. We had store that was in with the small business group that we were in. Is it SBA, Small Business Administration? Yeah.

00:49:38 Doug Marshall: So, yeah, that's a good point. Doug, thanks again for sharing all your wisdom with everybody.

00:49:44 Doug Marshall: Talk a little bit about some of the new products that you have coming out

00:49:48 Filip Valica: and where people can find them, whether they're in stores or online or, you know, how can we go get your product?

00:49:54 Filip Valica: Okay, well, our business model, we're a manufacturer. And then our business model is we have distributors, and then we also sell wholesale, and then we also sell retail. So we're pretty wide open now.

00:50:07 Filip Valica: The Gameface Company is the distributor in the U.S., and we sell to retail accounts.

00:50:13 Doug Marshall: You can find our Halloween products only during Halloween and grocery account, like H.E.B. and Albertsons and Safeway and True, the Rents and True Values, Super Value.

00:50:26 Doug Marshall: But as far as most of our other product, because a lot of it's new, it's at thegainfacecompany.com.

00:50:33 Filip Valica: It's all spelled out the gameface company.com.

00:50:37 Filip Valica: And the products define it up and the different types of products. So you've got the dry apply, like the fan mask, which you just peat and stick on.

00:50:46 Filip Valica: A new product in that line is the Bandit Mask, which is really cool and it's fun to wear, and kids love to wear them to games. And also, schools are selling them for fundraisers. That's a great idea. Yeah, it's really cool.

00:51:00 Filip Valica: So we do the different colors. You can do custom, our minimum order quantity, M.OQ is 500 for custom.

00:51:08 Filip Valica: And so some of the larger schools will do their own design and buy them, and I think they're like $2 or something, and they sell them for PIN or, you know, it's a great fundraiser.

00:51:18 Filip Valica: then we've got of course the tattoo faces which are all in the costume line for Halloween

00:51:23 Doug Marshall: and the newest product is the jewel face and it covers your face and rindstone and it's really cool because it only leads to rhinestones so it's great for parties Mardi Gras

00:51:38 Doug Marshall: weddings girl dress up princess you know dress up um bachelorette parties and we We sell them in the diamond, the pink, and the crystal blue.

00:51:52 Doug Marshall: And that's the one design and the three colors, and then we're working on new designs for that. In fact, we're even talking to a supermodel about coming out with a whole designer line for the jewelry.

00:52:05 Doug Marshall: Now that you mentioned it, some of the guests that have been on the show have had really great success, partnering with either fashion designers or models that do have a following online,

00:52:16 Doug Marshall: and then doing some sort of a trade agreement with, you know, splitting revenue or whatever it is in exchange for publicity, especially if you get somebody on that's popular. Right. And it's a good way to validate your product.

00:52:31 Doug Marshall: You know, we manufacture for a distributor, which they call them the game day face, and we do all 32 NFL teams, and we do 17 licensed collegiate designs.

00:52:43 Doug Marshall: And so we're also in the process of looking for a distributor. now for the new dry fly. So we want to get that in the NFL and in the Collegiate as well. Well, you have quite a bit going on, so I'm definitely going to let you go so you can focus on that.

00:52:58 Doug Marshall: But thanks again for sitting down and talking with us. I really appreciate you sharing your wealth of knowledge with us. I enjoyed it. Let's do it again sometime.

00:53:07 Doug Marshall: And that's all I have for today. Thanks for listening.

00:53:09 Doug Marshall: I put all the links that we've covered under the show notes posted at the product startup.com slash episode 8. Join me in two weeks when I speak with Gordon Firemark, an attorney devoted to representing creative and business people in media.

00:53:22 Doug Marshall: He's the producer and host of Entertainment Law Update podcast, and he'll sit down and talk to us about the general law issues surrounding small businesses, including patents, trademarks, contracts, NDAs, and we'll even get into insurance.

00:53:34 Doug Marshall: So if you like this episode and you want to see more like it, please leave me a review on iTunes by going to theproduct startup.com slash review. I appreciate your support, and I'll see you in two weeks.

00:53:46 Doug Marshall: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Product Startup Podcast with your host, Philip Belizea. For more great content and to stay up today, visit theproductstartup.com. Your guide to getting there.

00:54:04 Filip Valica: Thanks for tuning into this episode of the Product Startup Podcast, the show that teaches you what it really takes to bring your product to market and turn it into a big success.

00:54:13 Filip Valica: This podcast series is brought to you by Mako Design + Invent, the first firm in North America to provide global caliber end-to-end physical consumer product development to startups, inventors, and small product businesses.

00:54:25 Filip Valica: If you're looking for product development help on your invention, head over to macawdesign.com. That's m-a-k-o-design.com for a free consultation from one of Mako-designed for design studios from coast to coast. Thanks for listening and see you next time.